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EAP Users- Is it worth $5k?

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I think there's a lot of you out there who were brought to Tesla by way of AP. For me, it was all about the long range EV aspect -- since I bought before Tesla was even associated with AP, well except for the rumours on here about it, but not publicly at that time.

What I would like to know from you, is now that you've owned a Tesla or two, let's assume the regulators outlaw all AP, driver's assist, etc. so you could only buy a car based on its drivetrain and creature comforts. Would you buy another Tesla?

If no autopilot, then I would seriously consider other long range alternatives such as the Bolt EV. At price parity, I'd still go with the Tesla due to its look and feel, acceleration. However, Tesla is still more expensive than other EVs and I am not sure if I would be willing to pay the premium for that.
 
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bullet on EAP but not sure if the novelty would wear off and it’s something I would actually use on a regular basis.

Hi Yes 1 billion % EAP is worth is, you arrived refreshed on a long motorway journey, it lets you know of things you can't even see (bouncing radar below car in front), even works well in heavy rain and fog. I can't imagine not having it now! I only have AP1 and it's amazing enough can imagine what they will do with AP2.5

Let me know if you need a referral code for free unlimited supercharging before 15th July!
 
If no autopilot, then I would seriously consider other long range alternatives such as the Bolt EV. At price parity, I'd still go with the Tesla due to its look and feel, acceleration. However, Tesla is still more expensive than other EVs and I am not sure if I would be willing to pay the premium for that.

Okay, so you're in it for the EV aspect too given your alternatives don't include ICE or hybrids. That's where I am too but AP doesn't make much of a difference to me. For me, it's the supercharger network. Once another car maker has a comparable network, I'll give whatever EVs they make a serious look. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
 
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Good but it makes no sense to me why you would quote my post and say this when I was directly responding to this post:

She sounds like she needed a warning -- yet you take issue with my warning to her? Strange.

No issue, just commenting in general that was a crazy and extreme example of AP being a "problem" when it was ALL driver.

What "one" gains is what you and others gain, but not every "one".

In fact, some of us experience the opposite. I think it has to do with a control issue. I have no concern at all driving to the airport, yet I get a little nervous during take offs and landings -- just a little -- but yet I have none when driving -- and I'm far more likely to be injured or killed driving to the airport than on an airplane. But I can't control the plane -- I can control how I drive -- which is why I also get nervous when others drive me, including AP.

It's good that you can admit that but that's not always rational. I would feel very secure having Richard Petty be my chauffeur or my families chauffeur as he is pretty much the best driver who has ever lived. More realistically, you will be thankful for AP when you are tired and needing to get home and losing focus and AP pretty much keeps you upright.

Main thing is no hubris and no absolutes. AP isn't everything and it isn't nothing either. Play to its strengths, not to its weaknesses.

Wow, your eyes even work better on AP -- great! ;)

Do you know what I meant here? Normally you have to spend some driving cycles on looking at your speed or staying between lines. When you are looking down, you are not looking far down ahead.

Wow - sending texts while driving on AP. That's illegal here and for good reason too. I never touch my phone while driving -- it's just plain dangerous.

I don't do it very often because its not very safe and not very responsible but I do on occasion. As does most everyone. on occasion.
 
Good but it makes no sense to me why you would quote my post and say this when I was directly responding to this post:



She sounds like she needed a warning -- yet you take issue with my warning to her? Strange.



What "one" gains is what you and others gain, but not every "one".

In fact, some of us experience the opposite. I think it has to do with a control issue. I have no concern at all driving to the airport, yet I get a little nervous during take offs and landings -- just a little -- but yet I have none when driving -- and I'm far more likely to be injured or killed driving to the airport than on an airplane. But I can't control the plane -- I can control how I drive -- which is why I also get nervous when others drive me, including AP.



Wow, your eyes even work better on AP -- great! ;)



Wow - sending texts while driving on AP. That's illegal here and for good reason too -- it's just plain dangerous.

I think the key word in her post that you may be interpreting differently is "much" attention. I don't think anyone here is suggesting you don't need to pay any attention - but there's a huge difference between the amount of attention needed to assure AP isn't screwing up or encountering debris/idiots and the attention needed to drive in a high traffic environment with big speed differences.

That's where the vision comment comes from, too - time I don't have to spend watching lane lines and the car in front or the car in front of him can be spent watching my mirrors and the cars in other lanes or further ahead instead, improving overall situational awareness greatly.

Got no excuse for the texting part - that's a statistical bet you won't hit something while distracted similar to big sky theory, and may come back to bite sometime. Of course, with the extra time AP gives me, I see a frighteningly large number of my fellow drivers ignoring the law and safety this way without benefit of even adaptive cruise (that doesn't make it okay, but it's less dangerous than they are.) Widespread level 3 deployment can't come soon enough...
 
If you haven’t go to a Tesla store and take a test drive. I don’t have my 3 yet, but last time I was in Cali visiting my brother we went and test drive a Model S and that SJ traffic with EAP was amazing. I only test drive for about 20 minutes and that’s all the convincing I needed. Literally the first time I didn’t rage in trafffic and I smiled.... I say go for it, find something that costs a few bucks a week and cut it out (Sbucks, fast food...).
 
I've seen several arguments against AP around the need to pay attention being no different than just driving.

In my experience, that difference may indeed be negligible for short drives where traffic conditions are favorable. Where AP really, really shines is when commute time is long and traffic is sh*tty.

My commute takes 55 minutes with no traffic and almost 2 hours with regular rush hour traffic. Having driven this commute for over a year without a car with AP, I can say with great confidence that AP most definitely reduces the stress of that drive.

I am also in the camp of those who really really don't want to die due to a machine being dumb. I pay attention to the road conditions while AP is engaged. Even still, not having to control the wheel and pedals is significant mental saving. Again, you might not notice it for short and easy drives. But these days, I'm no longer worn out after my commutes. I come home from work in high spirits. That's a testament to AP and makes it worth it.


What I would like to know from you, is now that you've owned a Tesla or two, let's assume the regulators outlaw all AP, driver's assist, etc. so you could only buy a car based on its drivetrain and creature comforts. Would you buy another Tesla?

For me, absolutely. I was not attracted to Tesla for AP. It was the electric drivetrain and the performance (both in torque and in efficiency) of Tesla's EV drivetrain that attracted me. Plus I really admire Tesla's mission. They are walking the walk and taking tons of sh*t from others in the process.

Our first Tesla (a CPO) did not have AP. I'm really loving that I got it with the 3.
 
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Wife and I live at least 2.5-3 hours from the closest family that we regularly see. It's about a 6 hour trip to my parents and 10-11 hours to hers. We use AP for 95% of those long drives.

When I traveled solo down to Florida this past February, autopilot was a godsend. I managed to drive ~12 hrs in a day and not be physically fatigued when I got to where I was going. EAP is fantastic, and totally worth it. However if you're only ever on surface/local roads it might not be worthwhile. I really don't use it on non-highway roads for the most part. Mostly because I feel like I'm a more efficient driver without it when there's a little traffic. But in heavy stop and go traffic it's great.

Note that I'm only on AP1, which I think is now behind the current offering.
 
financing 5k with 7% tax and a 3% APR = $417.60 in finance charges ($5767 total). YMMV depending on tax and APR
That makes it a $653 gamble to take it later (and pay cash) assuming tax on $6k. The tax on the 6k seems hit or miss, so it might be even less.

Further breakdown: $5767 up front if financed and taxed as above = $96/ month over 60 months.
If you aren't going to use it daily, then it's hard to justify the cost.

I don't see how Tesla can continue to only charge $5k for the complete package when so many other vehicles have TACC standard. I expect an a la carte offer to become available within a year (TACC for $1k, etc).
 
I don't see how Tesla can continue to only charge $5k for the complete package when so many other vehicles have TACC standard. I expect an a la carte offer to become available within a year (TACC for $1k, etc).


Not sure why you expect that.

Also- most other companies versions of TACC suck. Until I drove a Tesla I thought the feature in general was terrible because even the "tightest" follow distance caused you to constantly have people cut in front of you, further slowing the car down, so you just kept dropping further and further back in traffic.

What other real EV competitors in this price range have tesla-quality TACC for free? (or even exist?)
 
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What other real EV competitors in this price range have tesla-quality TACC for free? (or even exist?)

Nothing is "Free" ... TACC is built into the cost of the vehicle options/ package

"Tesla-quality" for simply TACC is subjective.
Our 2018 Honda Clarity with an MSRP in the mid-$30s has TACC. It brakes well to adapt to speed when approaching a slower vehicle, but it's slow to get back up to speed.
I've driven a 2016 (maybe 2017) Audi that had exceptional TACC responsiveness.
I Also drove a 2017 Range Rover that was no better than our Honda.
Point being >>>
TACC is already offered in $30K vehicle packages. It may not be on the same level as Tesla, but it will continue to improve with newer models. $5k price point will be a hard sell with the base model.

Does Tesla continue to only offer the $5k all in software package, or do they offer a la carte options of the software and make money from customers that will never buy the $5k all-in package?
I don't see how the current EAP sales model will continue to make financial sense. The already install the hardware in every Model 3. Of course they want customers paying something for some level of associated software to at least recoup the cost of the hardware.
 
Nothing is "Free" ... TACC is built into the cost of the vehicle options/ package

"Tesla-quality" for simply TACC is subjective.
Our 2018 Honda Clarity with an MSRP in the mid-$30s has TACC. It brakes well to adapt to speed when approaching a slower vehicle, but it's slow to get back up to speed.
I've driven a 2016 (maybe 2017) Audi that had exceptional TACC responsiveness.
I Also drove a 2017 Range Rover that was no better than our Honda.
Point being >>>
TACC is already offered in $30K vehicle packages. It may not be on the same level as Tesla, but it will continue to improve with newer models. $5k price point will be a hard sell with the base model.

Does Tesla continue to only offer the $5k all in software package, or do they offer a la carte options of the software and make money from customers that will never buy the $5k all-in package?
I don't see how the current EAP sales model will continue to make financial sense. The already install the hardware in every Model 3. Of course they want customers paying something for some level of associated software to at least recoup the cost of the hardware.

The question is whether there are enough folks who will never buy the $5k package but would buy your notional ala carte $1k TACC to offset the loss of money from folks who do buy the whole package currently but would only buy TACC under your plan.

Tesla is asking quite a lot of money, but it doesn't seem to be out of line for what comparable offerings cost once you add up the packages.
 
The question is whether there are enough folks who will never buy the $5k package but would buy your notional ala carte $1k TACC to offset the loss of money from folks who do buy the whole package currently but would only buy TACC under your plan.

That's what the marketing dept is for :) Someone already determined the $5k EAP and $3k FSD price would get enough takers.
They're leaving money on the table right now, so figure out the price points for a la carte (TACC, blind spot monitoring, Summon, etc).
 
Some good points above. I have both EA and FSD on order but will probably delete these options just prior to delivery for the following reasons:

Direct:
1) Drive 3-6k miles a year (work from home)

Broad:
2) Car Payments with EA & FSD increase by about $180 /month.
3) Tested the tech over a weekend in an X. While cool, found myself easily distracted doing other things (using phone apps, menu screen, etc...). This is ok in stop and go traffic, when you're stopped.
4) Seeing news feeds about it not being able to discern stationary objects at time (fire trucks, medians, lane markers/skid marks) is a bit concerning.

Combining items 3 & 4 make me a bit nervous as some of these resulted in fatalities. Of course Tesla's fallback is to stay alert at all times and they;re not responsible, yet they provide you partial functionality to mentally "drift off".

I find myself more alert by having my hands on the wheel at all times, not just every 60 seconds.