Ear pain/Pressure help

[Yonki]

Very interesting point! Well worded and concise too!

Thanks. The rest of your message provides a great framework for what I wanted to add.

OK. I'll buy what you are saying. So how can I prove to Tesla that I have an infrasonic sound problem?

Well my Y went in for service yesterday. Tech had me take him on a test drive, where I heard it (though of course not as loudly as I have in the past), but he didn't. He said they can't fix anything they can't hear. But I still showed him a printout of my "report" and explained as best I could that the Y seems to have a resonant frequency that's lower than my 3 and in a range many people find uncomfortable (vs just normal road noise/rumble). He listened, and said that he would scan and forward the report to Tesla engineering. When I got the car back (also had Homelink installed), he said he had scanned and forwarded the report.

So that's one way to give feedback. I'll see if I can forward my report and this thread to other departments at Tesla. If others do the same, Tesla might take notice and address it.

I downloaded several infrasound apps on my phone and compared my Tesla to a Ford and a Buick and got the same results. What I have read on this forum is that cell phone microphones can't capture infrasound (I don't understand why). How can I prove it?

Well my cell phone microphone certainly caught it - you can see it in the graphs I posted. It doesn't go below 20Hz, but you can assume the "left" side (below 20Hz) drops off roughly like it's mirror image to the right of the peak, a typical resonance waveform.

I'm not sure how (or how well) the apps you tried work...if they work on iPhone tell me which ones and I'll check them out.

But here is my argument against what you are saying. The problem was definitely worse before I adjusted the hatch. In that case, the theory is that when I drove over a bump, the hatch bounced, creating a pressure wave. In that case it isn't infrasonic sound, rather it is just a single pressure wave, right?

No, it's still consistent. For something to resonate, it needs to have energy added to it (if nothing is moving there is no noise). In this case, things that add vibrational energy (basically anything that shakes) are road noise, bumps in the road, compressor turning on/off or even just running (if it vibrates while it's running), and a "loose" hatch will add more energy than an adjusted hatch that doesn't move as much when it encounters a bump or a rough road.

 

[Yonki]

"Dayton Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Measurement Microphone for Tablets iPhone iPad and Android" from www.parts-express.com!
Only good down to 18 Hz and out of stock at this site.

To get a microphone accurate at lower frequencies will be pricey. This one
"Dayton Audio OmniMic V2 Acoustic Measurement System" from www.parts-express.com!
supposedly can measure down to 5 Hz.

It would be great to see my measurements independently confirmed (and more cars measured), but I'm not sure it would be worth spending a lot of money on unless you could the mics for something else as well.

 

[David.85D]

"Dayton Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Measurement Microphone for Tablets iPhone iPad and Android" from www.parts-express.com!
Only good down to 18 Hz and out of stock at this site.

To get a microphone accurate at lower frequencies will be pricey. This one
"Dayton Audio OmniMic V2 Acoustic Measurement System" from www.parts-express.com!
supposedly can measure down to 5 Hz.

I've had a weird life. I have both of these sitting on a shelf here. I am willing to lend them to someone willing to PM me a real name / address / etc. and promise to return them...

 

[scott_mccool]

Thanks. The rest of your message provides a great framework for what I wanted to add.


Well my Y went in for service yesterday. Tech had me take him on a test drive, where I heard it (though of course not as loudly as I have in the past), but he didn't. He said they can't fix anything they can't hear. But I still showed him a printout of my "report" and explained as best I could that the Y seems to have a resonant frequency that's lower than my 3 and in a range many people find uncomfortable (vs just normal road noise/rumble). He listened, and said that he would scan and forward the report to Tesla engineering. When I got the car back (also had Homelink installed), he said he had scanned and forwarded the report.

So that's one way to give feedback. I'll see if I can forward my report and this thread to other departments at Tesla. If others do the same, Tesla might take notice and address it.


Well my cell phone microphone certainly caught it - you can see it in the graphs I posted. It doesn't go below 20Hz, but you can assume the "left" side (below 20Hz) drops off roughly like it's mirror image to the right of the peak, a typical resonance waveform.

I'm not sure how (or how well) the apps you tried work...if they work on iPhone tell me which ones and I'll check them out.


No, it's still consistent. For something to resonate, it needs to have energy added to it (if nothing is moving there is no noise). In this case, things that add vibrational energy (basically anything that shakes) are road noise, bumps in the road, compressor turning on/off or even just running (if it vibrates while it's running), and a "loose" hatch will add more energy than an adjusted hatch that doesn't move as much when it encounters a bump or a rough road.

Thanks for another great post! I'm taking my car in on the 17th. I will tell them that somebody in California is having the same problem and submitted them to Tesla Engineering.

I have a cheap Android Phone (Moto G7). The two apps I used were Infrasound Detector by Sergio Gudkov and Infrasound Recorder by RedVox. I don't know if they are available for iphone.

 

[scott_mccool]

I've had a weird life. I have both of these sitting on a shelf here. I am willing to lend them to someone willing to PM me a real name / address / etc. and promise to return them...

Thanks! Hopefully you and Yonki can talk, as he seems the most knowledgeable on this subject.

I'm not sure where you live. If it happens to be Florida, Maybe I could come borrow them in person so you can see I'm a real person.

 

[David.85D]

Thanks! Hopefully you and Yonki can talk, as he seems the most knowledgeable on this subject.

I'm not sure where you live. If it happens to be Florida, Maybe I could come borrow them in person so you can see I'm a real person.

I'm near Washington D.C.

 

[polyphonic54]

@David.85D Have you used these to measure infrasound, and if so how did it work out? I was looking at the Earthworks, but these are significantly cheaper.

 

[David.85D]

I can try to measure - I have not used them for this - I have a neighbor with a 3 and can measure on my own Mod S. What is the series of measurements I should try for? Sitting still, AC off. Sitting still AC on. (P.S. It's cold here, not sure the compressor will even kick in) Driving with no AC/fan. Driving with AC/fan on? Don't know anyone local with a Y.

 

[polyphonic54]

That sounds good to me. The Model S cars I have driven had a slight hatch buffet sound, but nothing out of ordinary from the HVAC, and very little body boom from the suspension/chassis. That could serve as a reference point. These sounds are probably a bit lower than 18 Hz, so the Dayton would be better imo.

Might be useful to drive on both rough and smooth roads, if possible?

 

[Pianewman]

I'm sorry to say we're joining the "ear pain/pressure" crowd. We LOVE the car, even tolerating the rough suspension (in the DFW region), but everyone in my family is suffering from ear pain/ringing. We've only had the car for 450 miles!!!

We're all classically trained musicians (Juilliard, Yale, UNTexas), at the upper end of the acoustic instrument food chain (31 years violinist in the National Symphony Orchestra), so we have a good understanding of basic acoustics. Most importantly, we don't want to risk our hearing riding in this car!

We notice high pitched constant-tone whine/squeal, much like the occasional tinnitus one gets with a head cold/congestion. We also notice the low frequency buffeting, as if there's a window open, but extremely low. Both of these sounds are not only annoying, they're painful.

I've snugged down the hatch cover (only 2 pads were making contact, now all 4 are snug). I also found the nuts securing the wheel well plastic liners were loose, snugged them down. I've driven with/without both of the removable flat "floor" pieces. Nothing seems to have changed. I've ordered the solid ModelYShelf that is being marketed, hoping it might help a bit.

Thank you to the folk that are pursuing this. I'm hoping we, as consumers, can offer enough critical, and verifiable, information to Tesla that they'll take it seriously.

 

[LV1972]

There were some early MS with this problem. It seams to be resolved lately

 

[MY-Y]

I just did an experiment that may prove helpful. In my MY if I move forward or reverse a fraction of 1 MPH, I can hear a fairly loud very low frequency sound resonating. It is coming from below the sub-trunk. I had my son sit in the sub-trunk, and he can both feel it in the sub-trunk bucket and the hatch window. Doing the same test with the hatch open has the same low frequency sound, but, naturally quieter. Interestingly, with my head by either of the rear wheels, I cannot hear the sound. Also Interesting was the sound was barely affected with my son sitting in the sub-trunk.

I wish I thought about testing this some more when I had my sub-trunk bucket out earlier this week when installing my kick sensor. Oh well.

The frequency ramps up from around 30 Hz when just starting to 60 Hz around 1 MPH.

 

[Pianewman]

MY-Y: Any chance you have photos of the structure under the "bucket"???

 

[MY-Y]

Sure did. Here are a few. The first one is after the inner liner is removed. There is a ~1" foam sound deadening panel between the liner and bucket. The other two show the top side of the underbelly. The fourth one is looking forward from the subtrunk hole. I circled the sound deadening panel laying in my car on the last one. I have other angles; let me know if there is something you'd like to see.

 

[Rshephorse]

So- I was getting some leaking in around the seal of the back hatch so I adjusted the rubber stoppers- these are the black rubber 'cones' on the bottom of the hatch. There are 4, but the outer two can screw in and screw out. I screwed them in, thinking this would bring the hatch in closer and seal off better (in addition to some silicone I put on the seals).
Sure enough though, I found myself popping my ears a few times and was aware of some vague ear discomfort. Not horrible but I can see where it would get to people.
By screwing the stoppers in, I increased the amount of 'slop' in the system and allowed the back hatch to pump in and out. Honestly there was no 'sound' element to this, just varying pressure. Perhaps infrasound?
So I can back the stoppers back out, stiffen up the system, but then I'm a bit concerned about the leaking...

 

[MY-Y]

I moved my catch down to have the hatch seal against the gasket better. Without touching any of the stops, my hatch would latch only 50% of the time without me pushing down on it for a day or two. Once the gasket settled down so it would latch every time (about a week), I adjusted the four stops. I have no buffeting now. There is still a low frequency rumble sometimes, but I learned to ignore it.

The first time I drove on the highway with the hatch sloppy, I couldn't stand the ear pressure. It was giving me a headache. I seriously thought I would have to return the car (7 day option back then). Fortunately, the adjustments solved the problem for me.

I'd love to have all of the low frequency noise gone, but it's nearly a non-issue for me now.

 

[Pianewman]

WooHoo!!! I have an electronic music specialist/acoustician friend, faculty at TCU, that is/was going to purchase a Y in the very near future. When I told him about the Y's sonic issues, he enthusiastically offered to set up some equipment to see what's going on. It will be very interesting indeed if my car produces the same soundwaves as others have documented.

It might be time for a new thread on this, where actual test results can be posted in a coherent form. Hmm...

 

[polyphonic54]

Most importantly, we don't want to risk our hearing riding in this car!

We notice high pitched constant-tone whine/squeal, much like the occasional tinnitus one gets with a head cold/congestion. We also notice the low frequency buffeting, as if there's a window open, but extremely low. Both of these sounds are not only annoying, they're painful.

Same concern. I work in an audio field and am especially concerned about my hearing. However, infrasound is another beast all together.
Your friend should use a measurement microphone that can capture frequencies down to 3-5 Hz.

 

[Yonki]

WooHoo!!! I have an electronic music specialist/acoustician friend, faculty at TCU, that is/was going to purchase a Y in the very near future. When I told him about the Y's sonic issues, he enthusiastically offered to set up some equipment to see what's going on. It will be very interesting indeed if my car produces the same soundwaves as others have documented.

It might be time for a new thread on this, where actual test results can be posted in a coherent form. Hmm...

That's great! Can't wait to see what he finds.

 

[scott_mccool]

WooHoo!!! I have an electronic music specialist/acoustician friend, faculty at TCU, that is/was going to purchase a Y in the very near future. When I told him about the Y's sonic issues, he enthusiastically offered to set up some equipment to see what's going on. It will be very interesting indeed if my car produces the same soundwaves as others have documented.

It might be time for a new thread on this, where actual test results can be posted in a coherent form. Hmm...

That's awesome. I'm excited. I'm hoping you are able to do this before my Service Center appointment on the 17th.

If you do start another thread, can you please post on this thread that you have? I'm just checking this thread.