Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Early 75/75D pack degradation

croman

Well-Known Member
Nov 21, 2016
5,073
7,860
Chicago, IL
So how about a bit of gratitude for things like this?

Gratitude? I paid for that. I'm not grateful when I get things I paid for. If Tesla went above and beyond, like they did with uncorking my 75D, then I'm grateful.

OTA updates aren't something I should be grateful for anymore than having the right color paint on the car. Its like reverse entitlement here. Anyone that wants what they paid for is called names.

I paid for 259 miles of range. Its what Tesla advertises. OR ELSE I paid for 75kwh of storage capacity. I've gotten neither. While my car can't go as far as promised, it can accelerate to that lesser destination faster! See how I can be grateful but still disappointed?
 

JonG

Banned
Aug 16, 2015
489
287
UK
About to buy a used MS .. may I ask .. how, exactly do you get the pack capacity in kWh ?
thanks in anticipation - coming from roadster I have a lot to learn about MS :cool:

If you’re looking at an 85 or a 90: take the number you expect it to be and then take away 8kwh.

There’s no easy way unless you use a third party app and see what the BMS reports. The long distance drive from full to empty is a working approx but there are a few things that get missed and not reported primarily linked to consumption when not turned on. I did it in a 90D and by that mechanism it indicated only 78kwh useable (so 82kwh total inc the 4kwh anti brick reserve they all have). That was in a virtually new car.

Or take the view it doesn’t matter, you’re investing in the future and that’s the thing that really matters. (If anyone dislikes this post I’ll assume they disagree with this bit).
 
I think the best way is to drive it to 0% and then charge it to 100% and note the kWhs that are reported as put into the pack.
Thanks Buster, Mike and Jon. That is the sure way to measure KWh.

However to measure 'in use' KWh data, accepting less accuracy than this, do any apps such as > VisibleTesla show more than Tesla Screens ?. ..or.. perhaps you can recommend any other apps / plugins to 'dig deeper into the battery' ?

FWIW Roadsters have a more primitive, but in some ways more useful system based on CAC (Calculated Amp-hour Capacity, iirc), which is a very useful measure of battery health.
 
Last edited:

Buster1

Member
Oct 13, 2016
582
276
Ft Worth
2B4ED200-CFF2-4E50-8570-3CC915FA00A6.jpeg


Maybe your display is different?? Just took this photo. Maybe I’m confused? o_O
 

ran349

Member
Jun 28, 2016
453
307
SoCal
The best way is to charge to 100% then drive it to 0% and note the kWh used on the display.

I think the best way is to drive it to 0% and then charge it to 100% and note the kWhs that are reported as put into the pack.
These methods give two different numbers that mean different things. The ratio of the two gives the charge/discharge efficiency of the battery, which is the energy extracted from the battery divided by the energy delivered to the battery. For my car, the ratio calculates to about 94% efficiency.
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,224
7,087
Delaware
I use a map to find roads. What does it mean to re-map an engine?

A modern internal combustion engine uses a computer to control several areas of operation, most notably fuel injection quantities and timing and spark timing.

That computer generally uses a multidimensional lookup table based on throttle setting, rpm, measured intake air temperature and flow rate and a few other factors to determine the correct fuel amount (once warm it also adjusts based on the results of the exhaust oxygen sensor.)

Remapping an engine is changing that lookup table. You can typically get 5-10% more power from a naturally aspirated engine, and 30% or more increases from a turbo engine by changing the tables.

Of course, that means pushing the internal components harder, which can lead to more failures. For example, the vast majority of the high pressure fuel pump failures on the VW 2.0T happened on chipped cars - the pump was apparently just strong enough for the designed application, and when the chips turned up the fuel pressure to match the higher boost, a lot of them blew.

Most chips also increase the emissions produced. Between this and the regulatory testing requirements, they are usually marked as "off road use only" - and routinely illegally installed/used.

Most manufacturers deny warranty claims if they know a car was chipped - resulting in an endless competition between manufacturers and chipmakers to detect and hide the chipping.
 

bambam4171

Member
Oct 4, 2017
359
1,144
Swiss boonies
Saghost got it right. The article explains how much know how is invested into desiging an ICE engine today pretty much stating that they very well know why they announce a give performance number and they also can predict what happens if you draw any more power from said engine. He goes into great detail describing why you have the same base engine in several performance levels and what parts need to change between the performance levels.

It all boils down to: Do you really think the engineers modern day sophisticated and highly complicated engines are so stupid to build in any extra power but not try to sell it? If yes you a great customer for any chipmaker and of course the shop that will replace the blown engine.
 

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Supporting Member
Jul 12, 2017
6,349
12,307
Springfield, VA
View attachment 277355

Maybe your display is different?? Just took this photo. Maybe I’m confused? o_O

Go into controls, settings, units & format, and change charging units from DISTANCE to ENERGY. Instead of showing +XX miles added, it will show +XX kWh added. This will also change your battery display from miles to percent.
 

Krash

Data Technician
Moderator
Apr 18, 2017
2,117
2,316
Intermountain US
...Do you really think the engineers modern day sophisticated and highly complicated engines are so stupid to build in any extra power but not try to sell it?...
But those engineers don't manufacture cars. Another group is saying "hey it's cheaper to source, inventory and warranty the most expensive part rather than have four different parts". That is why Tesla didn't build a cheaper motor in the 75. They just used the 100 motor.
 

bambam4171

Member
Oct 4, 2017
359
1,144
Swiss boonies
But those engineers don't manufacture cars. Another group is saying "hey it's cheaper to source, inventory and warranty the most expensive part rather than have four different parts". That is why Tesla didn't build a cheaper motor in the 75. They just used the 100 motor.
If you can, please read the article I've linked in German. You are wrong. Each performance level has different parts. At least with German manufacturers. They only keep replacement parts of the most expensive and thus best performance part but the initial build is very individual. The guy that writes there is an engineer and I know for a fact that what he says is implemented just the way he says. Imagine you build just 400 000 cars of a given model in 4 different perfomance levels. Buying top spec pistons will be more than double than the cheapest ones. So you would really spend 300 000 times too much in order to save stock which almost a non-issue with just in time production?

Electric is different but ICE you will only tons of variations inbetween performance versions
 

AZ Desert Driver

Rare combination
Mar 12, 2016
1,335
738
Tucson AZ
A modern internal combustion engine uses a computer to control several areas of operation, most notably fuel injection quantities and timing and spark timing.

That computer generally uses a multidimensional lookup table based on throttle setting, rpm, measured intake air temperature and flow rate and a few other factors to determine the correct fuel amount (once warm it also adjusts based on the results of the exhaust oxygen sensor.)

Remapping an engine is changing that lookup table. You can typically get 5-10% more power from a naturally aspirated engine, and 30% or more increases from a turbo engine by changing the tables.

Of course, that means pushing the internal components harder, which can lead to more failures. For example, the vast majority of the high pressure fuel pump failures on the VW 2.0T happened on chipped cars - the pump was apparently just strong enough for the designed application, and when the chips turned up the fuel pressure to match the higher boost, a lot of them blew.

Most chips also increase the emissions produced. Between this and the regulatory testing requirements, they are usually marked as "off road use only" - and routinely illegally installed/used.

Most manufacturers deny warranty claims if they know a car was chipped - resulting in an endless competition between manufacturers and chipmakers to detect and hide the chipping.
Thank you for this detailed explanation. As I read the above - I get the impression that "Chipping" and "Mapping" are the same thing. Did I get that right?
Years ago I was aware of something called "blueprinting" an engine to extract a tad more power. Is "Chipping" and "Mapping" the same thing (modernized equivalent of) blueprinting?
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,224
7,087
Delaware
Thank you for this detailed explanation. As I read the above - I get the impression that "Chipping" and "Mapping" are the same thing. Did I get that right?
Years ago I was aware of something called "blueprinting" an engine to extract a tad more power. Is "Chipping" and "Mapping" the same thing (modernized equivalent of) blueprinting?

Remapping and chipping are generally the same thing.

Blueprinting is a little different - as I understand it, that's a process where you take the engine apart and make small mechanical changes to make it run smoother and with more power, like porting.

Functionally you're right, though: chipping is the first thing folks who would have blueprinted a classic car do today - and I think really dedicated folks will do both, and throw in upgraded aftermarket parts in the engine while they're at it.
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top