Early Access and NDA overflow from 2018.41 thread

[iTech]

This thread is fantastic entertainment, I'm cancelling my Netflix subscription.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

So.... in your world you are the sole determinant of which rules should be followed and which shouldn't and only those subscribing to your personal code of ethics are "honorable" and serving a greater cause, and those not subscribing are not "honorable" especially if in your view they are not "serving the public good" as defined by you. Hmmm.....

Do you need special shoes to dance the razors edge of your ethical tightrope?

Isn't that what we all do?

If I'm driving down the road and some slow "RULE FOLLOWER" is in front of me that I'm going to get irked. It's basically like being kidnapped. This is my life your taking away from me!!

But, then when some crazy idiot passes me at some ridiculous speed I call them out as being dangerous. Where they're not respecting my right to live.

So yes my speed is the RIGHT speed.

Now it's not razors edge. I give at least a 5mph window.

Now I do agree with you in some aspects. Namely that Tesla doesn't really mind despite the request. Obviously there are strategies that they can employ to combat it, but they don't.

The main problem I have with it is Tesla should simply open it up. That way we got information from lots of different people with different personality and view points.

Not just the loose lips peeps.

 

[NewTMSMan]

Isn't that what we all do?

If I'm driving down the road and some slow "RULE FOLLOWER" is in front of me that I'm going to get irked. It's basically like being kidnapped. This is my life your taking away from me!!

But, then when some crazy idiot passes me at some ridiculous speed I call them out as being dangerous. Where they're not respecting my right to live.

So yes my speed is the RIGHT speed.

Now it's not razors edge. I give at least a 5mph window.

Now I do agree with you in some aspects. Namely that Tesla doesn't really mind despite the request. Obviously there are strategies that they can employ to combat it, but they don't.

The main problem I have with it is Tesla should simply open it up. That way we got information from lots of different people with different personality and view points.

Not just the loose lips peeps.

Honestly personally I am following the rules for the most part and have not posted about my experiences with V9 and Nav on AP really other than some minor comments TBH. That's how I have decided to handle this for me.

Only issue I have is people forcing their personal moral views on others and chastising those who are not doing exactly what they would do.

TBH I am completely with you and think Tesla should open it up, or at a minimum provide a protected environment for discussion of EAP. Right now you send emails into an abyss and never get a response and cannot discuss any experiences with others. In the past when I have participated as a Beta tester there was an open forum for discussion, which was much more valuable.

In any case have a great evening.

 

[NewTMSMan]

Sorry meant to add, this is my favorite Carlin bit:

 

[Bladerskb]

You're asking how I can be pro-hacking, and an advocate for the right to repair while at the same time opposing people who violate an at will agreement which they should feel privileged to take part of?

If you paid attention to my post I clearly said that part of life was figuring out which rules to follow and which rules to break.

My personal view is the hackers in the thread you were referring to were doing a great service to both myself, and you. Where they provided videos, and an explanation of what they found. They were perfectly forthcoming with what they found with both positive things, and negative things. We also knew that whatever they did find was likely a work in progress. That no absolute conclusion could be formed. In some ways they were fulfilling a need a customer like myself has that Tesla has failed to do. To see the progress of something I paid for.

I also see hacking as a requirement to maintain access to something we PAID for. There are entire threads about this, and discussions about it. So obviously I'm going to be biased in favor of them out of self-interest. The hackers also have legal protections in what they're doing like you yourself stated. So I don't see any harm in what they're doing. This might change as more and more FSD features come out. There might be a time where the hackers are going to violate laws regarding testing autonomous vehicles. Where they might put other people in danger by their actions. I don't think one can sign up to be an autonomous safety driver by saying you're a Tesla hacker.

With early access people I see them as violating an agreement without doing any public good in doing so.

It won't until Tesla allows early access people to be more forthcoming. That way we get a complete picture, and not just a few things here and there. The discussions would also be a lot more lively. If it wasn't for you I would have missed the thread completely because it wasn't that popular when there is only a few people willing to dispense a tiny bit of into.

Except they actually don't fully. which is what I tried to outline. Sure there's exemptions specifically for hacking things but they don't apply to the entertainment system, software that controls telematics ,etc.

Automakers just lost the battle to stop you from hacking your car

I 110% fully support hacking and I'm glad that Tesla isn't being petty and playing the scare tactic card. But the idea that obeying a random request is more honorable versus obeying the End-User License Agreements (EULAs) that specifically prohibits reverse-engineering that almost all products have is ridiculous.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Except they actually don't fully. which is what I tried to outline. Sure there's exemptions specifically for hacking things but they don't apply to the entertainment system, software that controls telematics ,etc.

Automakers just lost the battle to stop you from hacking your car

I 110% fully support hacking and I'm glad that Tesla isn't being petty and playing the scare tactic card. But the idea that obeying a random request is more honorable versus obeying the End-User License Agreements (EULAs) that specifically prohibits reverse-engineering that almost all products have is ridiculous.

I think it comes down to respect.

Hacker = Spy
Loose Lips EAP guy = Traitor

Even if the Spy is an enemy I can have respect for the spy craft.

No one likes a traitor.

Sure that's exaggerated example, but it really comes down to the effort/motivation. It also comes down to the fact that a hacker paid for his/her car. They OWN that car and they're entitled to tinker with it, and to tell people about it. The early access person didn't pay for anything to get access to that program. They were selected, and they enrolled with the understanding that they follow the rules of the program.

I still place most of the blame on Tesla though for not having an open EAP program. To my knowledge EAP people have no place to talk among themselves. The social media aspect is a big part of owning a Tesla. The sharing of information, and being kids before Christmas.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Except they actually don't fully. which is what I tried to outline. Sure there's exemptions specifically for hacking things but they don't apply to the entertainment system, software that controls telematics ,etc.

Automakers just lost the battle to stop you from hacking your car

I 110% fully support hacking and I'm glad that Tesla isn't being petty and playing the scare tactic card. But the idea that obeying a random request is more honorable versus obeying the End-User License Agreements (EULAs) that specifically prohibits reverse-engineering that almost all products have is ridiculous.

I posted my official answer in the reply above, but I do think it's important to check oneself.

To determine why something puts us off.

Usually people make a decision first about how they feel about something, and they justify it later. This is exactly what I did. I made the decision not to like the loose lips people before I identified why they irked me. It wasn't surprising as I seldom like loose lips types. I like people who can keep their mouths shut when asked.

In checking myself it could very well be that resentment also plays a role.

They won a lottery of sorts. It didn't any special effort or talent like it would take a hacker.
They didn't risk anything significant. It's not like a hacker who risks being on an upgrade blacklist.
They didn't have to do any effort at all.

Instead of respecting the privilege they were given they decide to ignore the rules of participation.

Where I would have respected the privilege, and I wouldn't have blabbered to the world about things I was asked not to.

But, Tesla didn't pick me. I guess my 8 mile commute to work didn't interest them.

 

[NewTMSMan]

Should have helped with Model 3 deliveries

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Sorry meant to add, this is my favorite Carlin bit:

Hey I was going to post that clip!