Early Model S owners - remember the supposed Supercharger penalty? Not a problem.

[AmpedRealtor]

Also, remember most of the charging is done at home, at way below 1C. For 85kWh battery owners, the HPWC charges at less than .5C and the UMC charges at less than .25C.

The relatively few slightly higher than 1C charges while traveling should not be a problem at all.

At 80A, the HPWC charges at approximately 20 kW. That works out to .24C on an 85 kWh battery, doesn't it?

 

[GSP]

At 80A, the HPWC charges at approximately 20 kW. That works out to .24C on an 85 kWh battery, doesn't it?

That looks correct to me.

GSP

 

[auger]

Not necessarily. If you live near a SC you may want to save money by charging there daily.

And then there are those of use that live in a condo with a dinosaur that has no integrity running the Board of Directors who will never allow electric car charging, even if you are willing to pay several thousand dollars to run an outlet to your parking spot.

Sometimes it's not about the few dollars of electricity for those of us that want local supercharging.

 

[tga]

And then there are those of use that live in a condo with a dinosaur that has no integrity running the Board of Directors who will never allow electric car charging, even if you are willing to pay several thousand dollars to run an outlet to your parking spot.

Sometimes it's not about the few dollars of electricity for those of us that want local supercharging.

Well, volunteer for the condo BoD and solve the problem from the inside... I served on a condo BoD for 5 years; we literally had to beg owners to serve. Generally, most blew it off with "Oh, I'm too busy, I have no time", to which I pointed out I was attending business school full time, and they were retired.

 

[auger]

I did, and I work full time. I've spent hours of my time on this. It's more complicated than that here.

There is no shortage of Board members.

 

[mknox]

What's interesting to me about all of this is the part about the Supercharger and Battery negotiating a "safe" rate of charge. I don't have the opportunity to Supercharge very often, but when I do, I pay close attention. Here are some of my "maximum" charge rates along with battery SOC:

37% - 62 kW
55% - 36 kW
60% - 34 kW

These are not all from the same charging session. I've never seen it get even close to 90 kW, even with my battery at around 15 to 20% SOC. As I sit there I think that I'm not doing much better than I would at a HPWC or a 100 amp J1772 station.

Another interesting thing is that no matter what, my car will never give me full re-gen power any more. The most I can get is about 45 kW while the dial goes to 60 kW.

I have an A-pack and about 41,000 miles.

 

[roblab]

What's interesting to me about all of this is the part about the Supercharger and Battery negotiating a "safe" rate of charge. I don't have the opportunity to Supercharge very often, but when I do, I pay close attention. Here are some of my "maximum" charge rates along with battery SOC:

37% - 62 kW
55% - 36 kW
60% - 34 kW

These are not all from the same charging session. I've never seen it get even close to 90 kW, even with my battery at around 15 to 20% SOC. As I sit there I think that I'm not doing much better than I would at a HPWC or a 100 amp J1772 station.

Another interesting thing is that no matter what, my car will never give me full re-gen power any more. The most I can get is about 45 kW while the dial goes to 60 kW.

I have an A-pack and about 41,000 miles.

Fellow A packer,

A few months ago I helped out with a test of the chargers. I started charging at 10% and charged to 90%. Perhaps you remember the test, done by our fellow club member. After starting out at 90 kW, it slowly ramped down as the charge went up. Newer cars with newer battery grades started at 135 kW and dropped faster, passing my turtle rate and ending up charging barely faster (a matter of 5 minutes or so) to 90%. It does slow down, though, as the battery fills.

It surprises me that your charging is so slow. Your car is not that old. How often do you use SCs? I use one about once a month unless on vacation.

My car was bought in Sept 2012, and I have over 60,000 miles on it. The only thing I can think of is that this slow charging may be an effect of the cold weather there. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area.

My math on using an HPWC is that they deliver 80 amps, which is often running at 208 volts or lower. 80*208 is around 16kW, nowhere near the lowest figure you claim of 34 kW, which is still twice what an HPWC will give you. My math may be wrong, though.

Additionally, I notice a reduced regen rate. A year or so ago, there were many letters from new owners who complained about the aggressive regen we used to have. I am not surprised that Tesla tried to make the regen seem tamer, although I DON'T like it. (Tesla??) There is now obviously a change in software that turns regen on slowly so there is no head snapping deceleration, and where I used to get nearly 90 Kw (there is dial above 60 kW) of regen, I can easily still get 60. I am assuming that Tesla is protecting their battery or something. I'd like to know! I do have to use my brakes more often because regen doesn't have enough force any more.

I'd like to hear more. I have never felt cheated by having an A pack and my car gets better every month. Just got 6.1 last week and am enjoying it.

Signature VIN 00064.

 

[mknox]

It surprises me that your charging is so slow. Your car is not that old. How often do you use SCs? I use one about once a month unless on vacation.

We have precious few Superchargers in my neck of the woods. I've used them on one road trip I made to Chicago last summer (4 stops in all) and have used the Toronto, ON one twice and the Woodstock, ON one three times.

My car was bought in Sept 2012, and I have over 60,000 miles on it. The only thing I can think of is that this slow charging may be an effect of the cold weather there. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Mine is a March 2013 car (which should have had a B-pack based on everyone else I know) and I have about 41,000 miles. True, some of my Supercharging is in the cold, although the car was fully warmed up (i.e. at least 60 miles or more of driving), but some was done in summer/fall weather.

My math on using an HPWC is that they deliver 80 amps, which is often running at 208 volts or lower. 80*208 is around 16kW, nowhere near the lowest figure you claim of 34 kW, which is still twice what an HPWC will give you. My math may be wrong, though.

No, your math is right. I was simply thinking 80 amps * 240 volts = 19.2 kW and that the difference to 34 isn't huge. Fair point that a lot of these units are connected to 208 volt circuits and sometimes yield barely above 200.

Additionally, I notice a reduced regen rate.

What I see is that the needle will never go above about 45 kW. Even if I'm at 70 MPH and drop my foot right off the accelerator. It used to pin at the full 60 kW and eventually taper as the car slows. It still tapers as the car slows, but never, ever goes to the full 60 kW any more. Are we talking about the same thing?

I guess what I'm driving at is whether there is something about my battery pack that is telling Superchargers and my inverter that it cannot take as much current any more.

 

[Musterion]

mknox, when you see the reduced regen that doesn't go to 60 kW anymore, is it ever accompanied by the dashed limit line or always without it?

 

[rlang59]

What I see is that the needle will never go above about 45 kW. Even if I'm at 70 MPH and drop my foot right off the accelerator. It used to pin at the full 60 kW and eventually taper as the car slows. It still tapers as the car slows, but never, ever goes to the full 60 kW any more

I noticed this on mine yesterday on my commute home (~30 miles) when the battery was cold from sitting at ~25F all day. Even after the line went away it was still capped at ~45kW and it took another 5-10 miles before I actually got full regen back.

 

[mknox]

mknox, when you see the reduced regen that doesn't go to 60 kW anymore, is it ever accompanied by the dashed limit line or always without it?

No, it's not temperature dependent. I started to notice it late last summer, but I did wonder if it was a cold weather thing. I do notice that when the re-gen limit line is there, it never actually reaches the line, and even after the limit line just disappears, I sometimes in the past wouldn't get the full 60 kW for a bit.

But here's the thing. I took it in to Service just before Christmas to have it checked out and picked up a loaner. With the loaner car, I had no problem whatsoever getting full re-gen even on city streets during a snowstorm. But because of the snowstorm, which got worse during the day, Tesla decided not to road test my car (which I appreciated - it was a brutally bad day) and so I have to make another appointment to go back.

When I put this together with the "slow" Supercharger speeds I see and my reduced range on a full charge, I have to wonder if there is something going on. Other than my nit-picky examples like this, the car still runs fine.

- - - Updated - - -

I noticed this on mine yesterday on my commute home (~30 miles) when the battery was cold from sitting at ~25F all day. Even after the line went away it was still capped at ~45kW and it took another 5-10 miles before I actually got full regen back.

Yes, that is what I observed with my car last winter. I believe that is normal.

 

[rlang59]

Yes, that is what I observed with my car last winter. I believe that is normal.

Agreed and I saw the same last winter, just pointing this out since it seemed to be what you are describing as an issue you are having. But it seems like yours never gets to 60kW based on your last post.

 

[Musterion]

No, it's not temperature dependent. I started to notice it late last summer, but I did wonder if it was a cold weather thing. I do notice that when the re-gen limit line is there, it never actually reaches the line, and even after the limit line just disappears, I sometimes in the past wouldn't get the full 60 kW for a bit.

But here's the thing. I took it in to Service just before Christmas to have it checked out and picked up a loaner. With the loaner car, I had no problem whatsoever getting full re-gen even on city streets during a snowstorm. But because of the snowstorm, which got worse during the day, Tesla decided not to road test my car (which I appreciated - it was a brutally bad day) and so I have to make another appointment to go back.

When I put this together with the "slow" Supercharger speeds I see and my reduced range on a full charge, I have to wonder if there is something going on. Other than my nit-picky examples like this, the car still runs fine.

I have the last 85-kWh "A" battery delivered (according to the wiki logs) and did check again with 2.2.115 -- after battery limit line disappears there is still a "soft limit," but after that is gone I can still "pin" the regen at 60 kW (if I am going downhill fast I can even get it a hair above 60 kW). However compared to you I am in much warmer climate and have less mileage. So that plus your experience with the loaner might indicate checking it out.

 

[Vger]

As one more early car data point, our Signature now has over 85,000 kms. The majority of that has been on long Supercharger-enabled road trips. In two years, we supercharged at least 100 times. Mostly, we charge daily at 80A to 90%. I have also done dozens of range charges. We have repeatedly run the battery down to <5% SOC, though recharged it immediately. Once, we accidentally ran it to shutdown, just shy of a supercharger, literally got help to push it into the stall, had to do an agonizingly slow "recovery charge", and off we went.

After all that, what is our Rated Range (2.2.115) at full range charge?!?!

Drum roll: 262-265 miles.