I have to agree with flamingo, scalpers are the lowest of low in my book. Make your money legitimately and let the next person in line who really wants the vehicle and used their cash to hold their spot get it. This happens everytime new tech comes out and it's the same old tune.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
I have to agree with flamingo, scalpers are the lowest of low in my book. Make your money legitimately and let the next person in line who really wants the vehicle and used their cash to hold their spot get it. This happens everytime new tech comes out and it's the same old tune.
UnbeknownstToAll
Member
Thanks, for taking an early spot from real fans of the cars, that would have liked to be one closer.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't worry about it. The scalpers will be cancelling their orders once they realize they have to pay sales tax and registration that is lost, the new buyer won't get rebates, the market for overpaying for a Model 3 is extremely limited (since those buyers will likely get a CPO or used Model S) and the factories will pumping out cars and batteries at a relatively fast rate. I kind of hope they don't cancel though, and lose their shirts. It couldn't happen to better people.
Last edited:
CarlitoDoc
Member
No offense, but folks that are buying this car "counting" on the Federal Tax credit may want to re-assess their options. At the end of the day this will be a $50K sedan if loaded properly. Just saying !!!
PS, this whole idea "selling your reservation" sounds like ticket scalping which #$@@#** me off. Go ahead, be an %($*$# !!!
PS, this whole idea "selling your reservation" sounds like ticket scalping which #$@@#** me off. Go ahead, be an %($*$# !!!
flyhigh123
Member
well if you dont currently own a tesla, selling to lose more money sounds like a genius plan!
Prediction, those who speculate are mostly going to get screwed.
Cars are not like normal commodities, and Teslas are not sold like normal cars, which is a double whammy.
1) Employees and owners get first choice. These stand a good chance of speculating.
2) High option cars come next. These will compete with the base Model S and used Model S's for pricing.
3) Double sales tax in most states.
4) Trouble with tax credits.
5) Trouble with financing a "used" car for more than the MSRP (scalping), cash customer are your only market.
6) Teslas are custom ordered. People want what they want.
So to turn a profit on scalping a TM3 is probably going to be hairy. Especially since the "customers" for these are already committed to waiting years for a car.
Same ol', same ol' - depends on the demand/hype vs.supply.
IIRC the Mazda Miata was selling to some people at 2x+ the MSRP when it first came out.
Now in that case, seems in it took 8 years to get to 400k units with 3 years to 250k units so may have been a lot of supply problems.
There is no systematic way for the IRS to even know you sold your car, much less what your intentions were (I planned to own it, but someone offered me 60k for it, what's a guy to do?), see I can see people taking that risk.
Just because they want to take that risk does not make it right in the eyes of public opinion. I am not someone who follows trends or popular things, but it cheeses me off when someone denies a true enthusiast a chance to get their product before someone who could care less who just wants to money. Some people who are good at this can really make serious money.
timk225
Active Member
So if they wreck the car, or run over some kids, or get caught with 50 pounds of cocaine in the trunk? What happens? Who gets the insurance payment? Who are the cops going to talk to? Who is legally liable?
Not to mention something like that could have fraud written all over it. Does someone really want to risk going to jail just to save a little money?
Looking forward to my P70D Model 3 in 2017 as I ordered 10:20am in Vegas on the 31st. I'm pretty sure my $1k is still worth $1k to Tesla. People paying $2k for multiple vehicles hoping to flip reservations really aren't going to find a huge market in pure cash buyers for the Model 3 when those same people can afford the more expensive S (unless they really want a smaller car). Just plain silly IMHO.
I dunno. I sort of blame the folks who have the money and attitude that they can buy their way to the front of the line.
Since you can't sell or transfer the reservation itself, the only way to do it would be to either purchase and immediately resell, or to co-purchase the car with someone and then remove yourself from the title later.
Also, don't forget that your reservation number is not your production number. You may have been first in line, but if you order a base model, are not an employee or a current owner, live on the east coast, etc, etc, you will be much further down the line. The reservation number represents when you will be invited to configure and order your car only, not when it will be produced.
Also, don't forget that your reservation number is not your production number. You may have been first in line, but if you order a base model, are not an employee or a current owner, live on the east coast, etc, etc, you will be much further down the line. The reservation number represents when you will be invited to configure and order your car only, not when it will be produced.
cpa
Active Member
Just throwing in my two cents here:
First off, I do not have any knowledge as to the mysterious workings of the Internal Revenue Service. I do know that sometimes they can be inefficient, stupid, and ignorant of the laws that they are charged with enforcing. I also know that they sometimes really do the right thing, not only for the evil gubmint but also for us taxpayers.
I do know for fact that governmental agencies frequently share information between and among themselves.
We know that we furnish the VIN of the car when we complete and submit form 8936. We know that our state of registration has this same information. We know that Tesla is required to submit quarterly reports to the Internal Revenue Service indicating the quantity of vehicles sold in the previous calendar quarter to count against the 200,000 threshold. We do not know what else is submitted with this raw data, like VIN or buyer.
It is not too much of a stretch of the imagination to have the various states submitting an electronic file with the manufacturer, VIN and purchaser's name and address. I am sure that you programming dudes would know how much of a programming challenge it would be to merge the state information with reported income tax information for that one form.
Then, it is just a matter of matching claims to owners at the end of the calendar year, and for the following year as well.
The statute for ordinary tax adjustments is three years from April 15, or the date of filing, whichever is later.
The statute for a material understatement of income (25%) is six years, and can be extended under certain circumstances.
There is no statute for civil fraud (criminal fraud does have a statute), so the IRS can go back as far as they want to. And civil fraud has a much lower threshold of proof than does criminal fraud.
Penalties for negligence, willful understatement of tax can easily top 50% of the tax assessment. Interest accrues (currently 4%) from the due date of the return.
I guess what I am saying is that to save $7,500 in tax could easily wind up costing a taxpayer much much more when all is said and done. And, it just ain't worth it to try to screw anyone--even the evil federal gubmit--out of such a (comparatively) paltry sum.
I learned a long time ago, that if one really wished to appropriate assets that are not rightfully theirs, take enough to last you the rest of your life. For me, seventy-five hundred dollars needs to have five more zeroes as significant figures.
First off, I do not have any knowledge as to the mysterious workings of the Internal Revenue Service. I do know that sometimes they can be inefficient, stupid, and ignorant of the laws that they are charged with enforcing. I also know that they sometimes really do the right thing, not only for the evil gubmint but also for us taxpayers.
I do know for fact that governmental agencies frequently share information between and among themselves.
We know that we furnish the VIN of the car when we complete and submit form 8936. We know that our state of registration has this same information. We know that Tesla is required to submit quarterly reports to the Internal Revenue Service indicating the quantity of vehicles sold in the previous calendar quarter to count against the 200,000 threshold. We do not know what else is submitted with this raw data, like VIN or buyer.
It is not too much of a stretch of the imagination to have the various states submitting an electronic file with the manufacturer, VIN and purchaser's name and address. I am sure that you programming dudes would know how much of a programming challenge it would be to merge the state information with reported income tax information for that one form.
Then, it is just a matter of matching claims to owners at the end of the calendar year, and for the following year as well.
The statute for ordinary tax adjustments is three years from April 15, or the date of filing, whichever is later.
The statute for a material understatement of income (25%) is six years, and can be extended under certain circumstances.
There is no statute for civil fraud (criminal fraud does have a statute), so the IRS can go back as far as they want to. And civil fraud has a much lower threshold of proof than does criminal fraud.
Penalties for negligence, willful understatement of tax can easily top 50% of the tax assessment. Interest accrues (currently 4%) from the due date of the return.
I guess what I am saying is that to save $7,500 in tax could easily wind up costing a taxpayer much much more when all is said and done. And, it just ain't worth it to try to screw anyone--even the evil federal gubmit--out of such a (comparatively) paltry sum.
I learned a long time ago, that if one really wished to appropriate assets that are not rightfully theirs, take enough to last you the rest of your life. For me, seventy-five hundred dollars needs to have five more zeroes as significant figures.
Does AutoPilot work that badly?
If the car gets impounded by DEA, it's already paid for and not your money.
/JK
Meant as a theoretical scenario.
So I guess it technically works.
Not for people with trust issues. LOL
BTW - Leinholder is Loss Payee for an insurance claim.
I'm hoping the upgrades are a little cheaper than what you might be describing, because I would agree that it's easy to make it a $50k car, and that changes my decision. It's a very compelling car and I think I could go up to the $42-43k price point depending on the federal tax credit situation. Any higher and I'll just put off an electric car for another 5 years.
Good for you and your initiative This move should get your 401k started. No one wants to be supporting another lazy bum on welfare.
pinski
Not Ludicrous
You might be surprised. Early 400,000 overall may be 200,000ish domestically. Depending on how fast production ramps up, you could qualify for part of the credit as it phases out.
Similar threads
