JeffK
Well-Known Member
but keep in mind the vast majority of unintended sudden acceleration events are in automatic ICEs where the intention is that their foot is already on the brake. Creep off is not even an option on those vehicles.
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Totally agree.
The pressing harder is a direct result of brain thinking you are on the brakes, but you are on the gas pedal. You press harder thinking it will brake, but it ends in an fake lawsuit against the manufacturer.
This!!!! The second collision is particulary concerning. New owners just don’t have the experience to maneuver their Tesla at low speeds in parking lot situations. At least with creep on they are forced to drive at less than 5mph for the first few moments.
This does not happen because the automatic holding brake will enable when stopped at lights. Creep on affects low speed maneuvering situations only.
True that creep on will not remove some scenarios of unintended acceleration. The instant power of an electric car like Tesla though means the throttle can do much more instant damage. While lack of revving engine noise and to an extent a somewhat unusual gear setup may also add to the problem in a way that does not affect many gasoline cars.
Creep on adds a layer of feedback of gear selection to the driver. It also helps in slow speed throttle application because it can often be done with brake only meaning initial speeds remain slower. Finally because slow speed driving becomes more brake centric it could lessen pedal misapplications in that way as well.
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JeffK
Well-Known Member
Are you kidding? It's part of the problem in most scenarios of unintended acceleration. People find the car moving, they panic, and slam a pedal.
Exactly, but like I mentioned with creep off if, you're moving slowly then you're hitting the accelerator. You don't slam it down in a panic because you know you're on the accelerator. The only way pedal misapplication can occur with creep off is if you're on a hill without vehicle hold. The car may start moving on its own, just like with creep. This might cause a panic and a pedal misapplication.
Make no mistake 99.99% of pedal misapplications leading to unintended acceleration (made up statistic, but likely true) are in vehicles which move by themselves when in gear. There is zero evidence that having creep off leads to a potentially unsafe condition, while the evidence is overwhelmingly the opposite.
The new Tesla firmware should help in some of these cases regardless of creep status.
Also some have mentioned gear selection, I don't consider this part of unintended acceleration. because if you hit the wrong gear and you hit the accelerator then you are intending to accelerate. With creep on and you're in the wrong gear and you accelerate in the opposite direction, if this causes you to panic then it was creeps fault in the first place.
Instead, with creep off if you're feathering the accelerator and you're going in the wrong direction you simply stop feathering the accelerator. Heck, you can even change gears right then and there without switching pedals. You have direct physical feedback to your intended acceleration, unlike with creep on when it's handled automatically by the machine.
That said, people can do what they want. If people are used to automatics then they can turn creep on. However, they should turn it off sometime and give it try. If you can retrain your feet, it's safer in the long run. If not, then keep using creep, by all means.
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@JeffK No problem we just have different views on this one. Pedal misapplication can happen with or without creep, that is true. It is also good that the option exists for people to choose as they please.
Which mode was causes more or less of it, our hypothesis is simply different. In my view it seems more likely that both the wrong pedal and excessive throttle can happen with creep off, for the reasons I listed. Your hypothesis seems to be the opposite, for the reasons you listed.
Which mode was causes more or less of it, our hypothesis is simply different. In my view it seems more likely that both the wrong pedal and excessive throttle can happen with creep off, for the reasons I listed. Your hypothesis seems to be the opposite, for the reasons you listed.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
You'll have to forgive me I'm super passionate because I've experienced unintended acceleration myself in an ICE plus I always dislike when someone purchases an EV and tries their hardest to make it emulate the ICE they came from. (turning off regen, turning creep on, wishing it had fake engine sounds or fake gears). I wouldn't doubt we see someone put a fake exhaust on a Tesla.
Last thought (for now). Preschool parking lot where posted sign says 5mph. Lots of parents and kids walking this way and that way. Lots of cars trying to park and lots of cars trying to leave. Basically the worst place to have a parking lot accident. I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel a lot safer with creep on and with my foot riding the brake pedal. I would be worried about a new Tesla owner with a P100D (or even a base Model 3) with their foot on the accelerator trying to maneuver through such an environment. Yes, those who live and die by creep off will say that I might pass out and then my car with creep on will crash into a kid whereas with creep off the car would probably slow to a near stop if the driver passed out. I give you that. But I would counter that that crashing into a kid at 5mph is not as bad as crashing into a kid at 60mph in 2.3 seconds if for whatever reason (panic, seizure, confusion) you stomped on the pedal your foot was riding. Again my argument that you know your foot is definitely riding the brake pedal is because that is the default and only allowed position of the foot when turning on a Tesla and shifting into gear.
Also to clarify my own preference, I have tried creep off and really like it. If it were just me, I would have creep off. But other people drive our Teslas and those people are less experienced with Tesla and they do drive ICE cars. So I leave creep on to reduce risk.
Also to clarify my own preference, I have tried creep off and really like it. If it were just me, I would have creep off. But other people drive our Teslas and those people are less experienced with Tesla and they do drive ICE cars. So I leave creep on to reduce risk.
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You'll have to forgive me I'm super passionate because I've experienced unintended acceleration myself in an ICE plus I always dislike when someone purchases an EV and tries their hardest to make it emulate the ICE they came from. (turning off regen, turning creep on, wishing it had fake engine sounds or fake gears). I wouldn't doubt we see someone put a fake exhaust on a Tesla.
ICE Vehicles have Reverse too, should we get rid of that too?
I am Team Creep as well. Modulating the throttle when parking on a P100D is tricky. Also, I don't like the roll back when not on flat surfaces.
You'll have to forgive me I'm super passionate because I've experienced unintended acceleration myself in an ICE plus I always dislike when someone purchases an EV and tries their hardest to make it emulate the ICE they came from. (turning off regen, turning creep on, wishing it had fake engine sounds or fake gears). I wouldn't doubt we see someone put a fake exhaust on a Tesla.
To each their own.
I don’t consider creep a gasoline car emulation. For me it is a convenience feature. It makes low speed maneuvering more automated and pleasant. Same as regen makes braking more automated, actually, to cross over to the other side of your comparison.Creep allows single pedal driving for low speed maneuvering (brake only). Regen allows single pedal driving for higher speeds (throttle only).
It is for me a bonus that I also consider creep having safety benefits.
polymathic
Member
As someone who has only driven a stick shift for the last 30 years, creep is off. I see the benefits of creep for some people for sure, and I enable it if I allow someone to drive my Tesla. But I've never driven a car that has creep in my life, and I'm not about to start now. I only like my car to move when I press the accelerator. I also like to time my regen so I barely need to apply the brakes. Seems that with creep on, you'd be using your brakes more, which would lead to more wear.
very true.. but the pedal they slam in that situation is almost always the brake pedal. Because when you shift from P to either D or R, your foot is on the brake pedal only. So when you see it moving in the wrong direction you press the brake harder.
Amen
Interesting point, useful technique and I have probably also used it with ICE vehicles. Still seems better for the overwhelming majority of cases for the car not to move on its own. I could see using the touch screen to go into Creep mode occasionally for unususual precision maneuvers.
mknox
Well-Known Member
I think I've said this before but seriously.... people who cannot distinguish the difference between the "go" and the "stop" pedals should not be driving. This has nothing to do with creep on or off.
Not another point, but just a question. All you 27 people that downvoted my post, please be honest... are you really telling your new Tesla owner friends to set creep off??? If you are, then at least you’re explaining the differences in behavior of the car and mentioning the crashes that are regularly reported here, on Facebook, and on Reddit? It’s one thing to like creep off yourself but I think it’s reckless to tell new Tesla owners to set creep off without any explanation of the differences and potential for unintended acceleration.
Creep = On is a binky placebo for numnuts who can't drive. Somehow they'll cause an uproar and force Tesla to turn it on with FSD. The fact is - they're still bad drivers.
