Editorial: Why it is safer to have creep mode ON rather than OFF.

[brianman]

are you really telling your new Tesla owner friends to set creep off???

Speaking for myself, I don't "tell" my friends what settings to use; offer opinions -sure.

When doing end-of-September vehicle orientations at delivery, I ask the following:

The car is in Park. You press the brake pedal and put the car into Drive. You're on level ground. When you release the brake, do you want the vehicle to idle forward or hold its position?

I haven't found a simpler way to describe it quickly (yet), and it does cause some drivers to pause to process the question. The response has been split. I don't want to try to put a tight number on it, but it's definitely not 80/20 or 20/80 but somewhere in the middle of those.

As for myself, I've never wanted Creep in any of my vehicles (all have been non-manual) but Tesla is the first one to offer the setting to give me the option. Kudos to them for offering that. I hope they never remove the option because a lot of customers will be unhappy on at least one side of the fence, and maybe both.

 

[commasign]

The car is in Park. You press the brake pedal and put the car into Drive. You're on level ground. When you release the brake, do you want the vehicle to idle forward or hold its position?

This is perfect. I’m worried about the new owners who didn’t get the opportunity to hear this and understand the implications.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

If it hasn’t already been mentioned, the one place Creep is preferable is for an extremely tight garage.

 

[Peteski]

If it hasn’t already been mentioned, the one place Creep is preferable is for an extremely tight garage.

Not for me it isn't and our garage is pretty tight with all the crap in it!

 

[electronblue]

Interesting point, useful technique and I have probably also used it with ICE vehicles. Still seems better for the overwhelming majority of cases for the car not to move on its own. I could see using the touch screen to go into Creep mode occasionally for unususual precision maneuvers.

One more point is that creep on works in conjunction with hold assist in Autopilot era Teslas. This means the car can stay put in many traffic scenarios like when stopping in lights even with creep on.

But in those potentially tricky and confusing situations where you are switching gears back and forth and maneuvering at low speed, creep does stay on and allows single pedal driving (brake only) at low speeds.

 

[JeffK]

very true.. but the pedal they slam in that situation is almost always the brake pedal.

Exactly

 

[Peteski]

One more point is that creep on works in conjunction with hold assist in Autopilot era Teslas. This means the car can stay put in many traffic scenarios like when stopping in lights even with creep on.

But in those potentially tricky and confusing situations where you are switching gears back and forth and maneuvering at low speed, creep does stay on and allows single pedal driving (brake only) at low speeds.

Glad you like creep, I just find it an annoying throwback to ICE automatics. Hill hold works great with creep off and doesn't have to be pressed so hard to activate.

It's totally pointless arguing pros and cons of something we can all try out for ourselves. Creep was gone from my car within the first day and I've never felt any need to go back. There may be specific scenarios where I might actually prefer to have creep on, but there are definitely scenarios where I much prefer it not to creep. Like when sat at every set of lights and every other time I drive away from a standstill.

 

[mxnym]

Interesting point, useful technique and I have probably also used it with ICE vehicles. Still seems better for the overwhelming majority of cases for the car not to move on its own. I could see using the touch screen to go into Creep mode occasionally for unususual precision maneuvers.

Except for if you have feeling in your feet and control of your limbs, you can turn creep mode off and move forward slower than it would creep using the accelerator even in a P100D set to Ludicrous mode. IMO, the accelerator pedal is far more precise than the brake pedal.

If it hasn’t already been mentioned, the one place Creep is preferable is for an extremely tight garage.

Not only has it already been mentioned, it has already been disagreed with. If I had creep on, I would have lost one mirror and scratched the other. Because I have it off, both are pristine.

 

[electronblue]

It's totally pointless arguing pros and cons of something we can all try out for ourselves.

I would agree arguing personal preference is pointless and am glad the choice exists. Most people probably don’t test both options enough to form an opinion and why should they, use what works for you. People like what they like and promote what they like as usual.

Still both creep on and off can certainly have objective pros and cons to be debated in addition to that. I find this thread informative in many directions. Good ideas and thoughts from many folks.

 

[mal_tsla]

very true.. but the pedal they slam in that situation is almost always the brake pedal. Because when you shift from P to either D or R, your foot is on the brake pedal only. So when you see it moving in the wrong direction you press the brake harder.



Amen

Makes no sense to me. The vast majority of unintended acceleration incidents occur in ICE automatics with mandatory creep.

If creep fixes this problem, why does it happen so often in those cars? Even in my anecdotal data I know of three people near to my circles who've had it happen to them in cars like Camrys and Infiniti G35s.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

Quite the debate going on here.

I honestly find 'creep' mode in any car undesirable (although I've always owned manual transmission cars before my Tesla). People seem to lack the ability to keep their foot on the brake and their cars are always inching forward at red lights, stop signs etc.

With the break hold feature, stop the car, push into hold, and take you foot off the pedal and place it to the side where it belongs. That way you can jab your phone, yell at the kids or scratch your balls, or whatever else people do other than to do the one things they're supposed to do in their cars, which is pay attention to the car and the road.

if you 'pass out' (really, that's the rationale here?) you won't have your foot on anything.

 

[electronblue]

Makes no sense to me. The vast majority of unintended acceleration incidents occur in ICE automatics with mandatory creep.

If creep fixes this problem, why does it happen so often in those cars? Even in my anecdotal data I know of three people near to my circles who've had it happen to them in cars like Camrys and Infiniti G35s.

This is just one persons opinion but my hypothesis is while unintended acceleration mistakes happen on gasoline automatics with creep, on a powerful electric, with instant throttle, without revving delay, without engine noise and without traditional gears they could happen even more without creep as there are even less signals for the driver that might alert them to their own mistake in time.

 

[Peteski]

Most people probably don’t test both options enough to form an opinion

I would expect everyone has plenty of previous experience with creep given that all conventional automatics have it. Not even sure what there is to talk about regarding creep unless this is aimed at learner drivers. It's the no creep that's the new game in town and I agree that does warrant some discussion, which it certainly has generated! I instantly preferred driving my Tesla with creep off, but us Brits commonly drive manual (stick shift) cars which don't creep either, although different again with clutch control required. What annoys me about these threads are people who keep insisting that creep on is somehow inherently safer. I just don't buy into that idea. People are just used to what they've driven for years previously and don't like change. We're all grown ups and have a choice. Creep off works fine for me, but it's clearly not for everyone. At least there is a simple box everyone can tick and be happy.

 

[electronblue]

I instantly preferred driving my Tesla with creep off, but us Brits commonly drive manual (stick shift) cars which don't creep either, although different again with clutch control

Driving a stick is generally more involved as it requires constant operation of the clutch and the lever. I guess manual has the least unintended accelerations of all. In manual the clutch is the creep.

My hunch is creep off automatic like Tesla is not, safety sense, same as a manual. Creepless Tesla misses the crawling inherent to holding a clutch just so which is similar to automatic creep. Without creep or crawling on clutch the car just goes on throttle. And a fast Tesla really goes with creep off. No warning, no sound. With creep or crawling on clutch you get a bit more warning about what is happening first.

Manuals surely have their own issues related to clutch operating errors so everything has its issues.

What annoys me about these threads are people who keep insisting that creep on is somehow inherently safer. I just don't buy into that idea.

There is room for many opinions on this I’m sure. They are just opinions.

 

[Peteski]

Driving a stick is generally more involved as it requires constant operation of the clutch and the lever. I guess manual has the least unintended accelerations of all. In manual the clutch is the creep.

My hunch is creep off automatic like Tesla is not, safety sense, same as a manual. Creepless Tesla misses the crawling inherent to holding a clutch just so which is similar to automatic creep. Without creep or crawling on clutch the car just goes on throttle. And a fast Tesla really goes with creep off. No warning, no sound. With creep or crawling on clutch you get a bit more warning about what is happening first.

Manuals surely have their own issues related to clutch operating errors so everything has its issues.



There is room for many opinions on this I’m sure. They are just opinions.

A manual clutch is much harder to modulate than the throttle on a Tesla. Just ask any learner driver. It's also far more likely for your foot to accidentally slip off the clutch, lurching you suddenly forward before usually stalling, than it is to accidentally stamp on the throttle. But I digress, creep on vs creep off on a Tesla has no winners or losers - only opinions. Those who have difficulty with throttle modulation are probably better off with creep. Those who don't have an issue are free to enjoy the benefits of not having creep and I personally think it's one of the nice little bonuses of driving an EV. Watching other drivers creeping and stopping at lights while I relax and stretch my legs out is quite nice. Just a light dab to engage hill hold and your done until you need to move off again. Obviously you can use AP for the same effect with or without creep, but I don't always like to rely on AP in every situation.

 

[electronblue]

Watching other drivers creeping and stopping at lights while I relax and stretch my legs out is quite nice.

I respect your opinion and do not wish to affect it. Slight addition though: Same happens with creep in any car with hold assist, Teslas included. Creep does not affect stopping in lights or in traffic where the car stays still. The difference is in low speed maneuvering.

As for manual, I acknowledged clutch operating errors in my message of course. I was just thinking about the predictability perspective: crawling on clutch and automatic creeping offer a preview of where and how the car starts moving which is missing with creepless.

 

[polymathic]

From reading this thread, I was thinking that the most interesting data would have to come from Tesla. I'd like to know:

What are the number of Tesla drivers with creep on or off by geographic location (I bet France has more creep off than the US, say, due to the larger number of stick drivers)?

In cases of sudden acceleration, what are the stats about creep being on or off?

And finally, what are the stats of creep being on or off in small, low speed fender benders and parking situations?

This would add a great deal more to this discussion.

 

[mknox]

If it hasn’t already been mentioned, the one place Creep is preferable is for an extremely tight garage.

Exact opposite for me. I have to drive in until I "tickle" a big sheet of cardboard I have at the end of my garage. When I see the cardboard wiggle, I know I am in far enough for the door to close. In my past ICE cars, I would frequently bang into it harder than I'd like when I released the brake and the car lunged faster that I expected. With Creep off, I can modulate the forward motion so precisely that I have never once banged in to the end of my garage in over 5 years.

 

[electronblue]

Exact opposite for me. I have to drive in until I "tickle" a big sheet of cardboard I have at the end of my garage. When I see the cardboard wiggle, I know I am in far enough for the door to close. In my past ICE cars, I would frequently bang into it harder than I'd like when I released the brake and the car lunged faster that I expected. With Creep off, I can modulate the forward motion so precisely that I have never once banged in to the end of my garage in over 5 years.

It is good that you have the option to choose. Creep provides preselected automated low speed which may not be suited for all scenarios of course. Saying that I think gasoline cars tend to have less precise creep than electrics just like they have less immediate throttle response so things might be somewhat different with a Tesla.

 

[Ulmo]

Much of the prior discussions/debate about creep mode have related to user preference or familiarity with ICE car behavior. But in light of recent accidents, I thought it be worth pointing out an important safety consideration.

First, answer the following question assuming creep mode is ON (same as an ICE car with automatic transmission):

You are in the driver's seat of your Tesla and suddenly become disoriented (doze off, pass out, seizure, brain fart moment). When you come to, you realize the Tesla is not moving but your vision is blurry and you don't or can't look at the screens. Which gear could your Tesla be in?

A) Drive
B) Reverse
C) Neutral or Park
E) Any of the above.

The answer is C.

You suddenly stomp on a pedal, either the brake or accelerator, either intentionally or unintentionally. Which outcomes are possible?

A) Car lunges forward at high speed.
B) Car lunges backward at high speed.
C) Car doesn't move.
D) Any of the above.

The answer is C.


Now, answer the same question assuming creep mode is OFF.

You are in the driver's seat of your Tesla and suddenly become disoriented (doze off, pass out, seizure, brain fart moment). When you come to, you realize the Tesla is not moving but your vision is blurry and you don't or can't look at the screens. Which gear could your Tesla be in?

A) Drive
B) Reverse
C) Neutral or Park
D) Any of the above.

The answer is D.

You suddenly stomp on a pedal, either the brake or accelerator, either intentionally or unintentionally. Which outcomes are possible?

A) Car lunges forward at high speed.
B) Car lunges backward at high speed.
C) Car doesn't move.
D) Any of the above.

The answer is D.

So, in summary, with creep mode ON, you have a very predictable experience with regard to gear and car behavior when the car is not moving. But with creep mode OFF, any sort of disorientation and suddenly you might not be able to tell what gear you are in and not know what might happen if you stomp on a pedal either intentionally or unintentionally.

I learned when I owned my Model S that indeed Creep Mode ON was much safer, much more intuitive, and much easier to use and understand, than non-creep mode. I drove a long way without creep mode, and I thought it was more "raw" and "natural", until I realized how dangerous it could be and how much better creep mode is when someone recommended it to me to solve some safety problems I had. Not only did creep mode solve those safety problems, it solved many other safety problems, and made driving easier and more enjoyable.