TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Edmunds has posted true cost to own numbers.. LOLOLOL

Discussion in 'Model S' started by CapitalistOppressor, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. CapitalistOppressor

    CapitalistOppressor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,621
  2. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,281
    Location:
    Ancaster, Canada
    What's so secretive about TCO #'s ?
     
  3. chmod a+wrx

    chmod a+wrx Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    152
    You mean this?????

    edmunds.jpg
     
  4. CapitalistOppressor

    CapitalistOppressor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,621
    It's just funny because it's a mistake. They are showing a 5 years TCO for the base model of $13,294 with zero depreciation. I badly want a screenshot so I can argue with Kelly Bluebook when they try to claim that my Model S is going to lose value the longer I own it :tongue:
     
  5. Zextraterrestrial

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    3,636
    Location:
    Humboldt/Los Altos
    It is a little different for me to own??
    or they have 'fixed' it:biggrin:

    ture cost to own.jpg
     
  6. CapitalistOppressor

    CapitalistOppressor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,621
    Hey, yours is cheaper than mine :(

    60626 is obviously a better zip code to own a Model S than 92880. Mine is gonna cost me $13k . . .

    - - - Updated - - -


    You live in California, so your numbers are the same as mine :)

    We need to move to Chicago with chmod a+wrx . . .

    - - - Updated - - -

    The energy costs go up year by year. I wonder what level of battery degradation they are assuming. Time for math . . .

    Year 2 - 821/846 = 0.971
    Year 3 - 821/871 = 0.943
    Year 4 - 821/898 = 0.914
    Year 5 - 821/924 = 0.888

    It doesn't include how much degradation they expect in the first year, but it looks like their model assumes a 3% degradation per year, so I guess it works out to 15% over 5 years. Wonder if those are actually based on their analysis of the Model S batteries or if its a mistake? Some have posted 7 or 8 year numbers which aren't much worse (i.e. 7 years would be 21%, 8 years 24%).

    - - - Updated - - -

    losing ~15% after 5 years and 75,000 miles looks like a credible number for me, so I assume that's an actual estimate on the part of Edmunds regarding Model S battery degradation. Where are our resident battery experts when we need them? :)
     
  7. sp4rk

    sp4rk Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,219
    Location:
    Schaumburg, IL
    Move here?

    I'll be glad to swap my house for yours for a 1 year trial!
     
  8. CapitalistOppressor

    CapitalistOppressor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,621
    Only if you take my underwater mortgage with it.. Riverside County is ground zero for the national housing crisis :tongue:

    Anyone know why energy costs would go up with the Model S? How does degradation (which results in a smaller battery) cause higher energy costs? I assume they are modeling changes to the battery chemistry as opposed to a less efficient charging system, but do those inefficiencies also reflect reduced charge capacity, and is there a linear relationship?

    The more I think about it, the less I understand the Edmunds fuel numbers, which likely means I can't extrapolate degradation from them at all. Oh well, it seemed like a good idea at the time :)
     
  9. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    4,279
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Battery degradation won't consume more power. I think their increasing fuel prices are due to electric rates increasing.
     
  10. CapitalistOppressor

    CapitalistOppressor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,621
    Ok, a huge nevermind about the fuel costs going up. Every car Edmunds lists has the same ~3% increase, so it must be something stupid like inflation. It's certainly a meaningless number if both ICE vehicles and electric have fuel costs which increase at the same rate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ^^ Yes, I'm pretty sure it's a basic inflation estimate. I assumed that the numbers would be corrected for inflation so they would be meaningful to a car buyer.
     
  11. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,842
    Location:
    Portland, Maine, USA
    An idiotic thing about the Edmunds TCO is that they take a simple sum of the five years' costs. Time value of money, anyone?
     
  12. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2,052
    Location:
    Herndon, VA
  13. CapitalistOppressor

    CapitalistOppressor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,621
    It's clearly under construction, and almost meaningless until they correctly populate all of the values. The fuel costs look consistent with what they estimate for Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf, in that the Model S costs a bit more than either of those thanks to a lower MPGe. But at this point that, and maybe financing fees look like the only items rooted in reality.

    Try putting in your zip code to see if numbers show up, but mostly it's of interest because until recently nothing was in there. So it's nice to know that Edmunds is starting to fill in the data.
     

Share This Page