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Efficient all-season road-tripping tire with some snow grip

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dsgerbc

Active Member
Jun 4, 2019
1,154
1,000
Michigan
Hello all. I'm trying to cut down the number of wheel/tire sets I'll have for this car from a projected 5, so I'd appreciate any help.

I don't normally run all-season tires,I usually have winter, summer,late fall/early spring sets. In this car, I'll add a track set and probably need a road-trip set. I'm thinking of combining some of those.

One option is combining a 'late fall/early spring' set with an efficient road-trip tire set. I currently have Michelin PA4 for the former (on top of full-winter set), and don't have a road-trip set since my car came with 20" summer tires.

Efficient all-seasons with some snow/ice grip for that stray November/March snow storm should work on some Fastev EV01(+) 18" wheels with aero covers installed for road trips.

Any tire suggestions? All I can think of is DWS 06, but that's probably not an efficient tire.
I hear A/S 3+ has *more* snow/ice grip than A/S 3 (which I've had in the past), but not by much. I'm not averse to running non-OEM sizes as long as they aren't too different. And going for efficiency probably precludes tires wider than 245mm.

Any other suggestions? I've seen some reports on Vredestein Quatrac being decent in the snow, but not much about its efficiency. What else is there to consider that's at least somewhat performancy?

Thanks!
 
Double down on the whole thing:

*deep snow and/or Sno*Drift rally
*winter everyday performance snow Pirelli Sottozero 3
*late fall/early spring all-season Michelin A/S 3+
*late spring/early fall cold summer tire Michelin PS4S
*mid-summer everyday performance RE-71R
*HPDE Michelin Cup 2
*NASA TT Hoosier R7

And then "road trip" high efficiency/less grip versions for winter, spring/fall, and summer. That makes 10 sets total. Shoes for every occasion.

OR, realize you don't need 2/3rds of that and pick three sets that cover the whole spectrum. Performance winter, Spring/Fall all-season or cold summer, and trackable summer tires. I'm running three sets, Sottozero 3, PS4S on stock 20's, and Cup2's. IMO there's no functional difference between "everyday" and "road trip" tires. I'm not willing to trade overall grip for showing up at the supercharger with an extra couple% charge.

It sounds like you're pretty much looking for affirmation that a 245/40-19 or 245/35-20 Michelin A/S 3+ is a good answer. Yes, it's a great tire for Fall/Spring with a bias on cold roads with a dust of snow. According to Tire Rack's test, it's 1% more efficient than the Conti DWS06 and is measurably better in every useful metric. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=241
 
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Oh, the UP eh? IMO, going to the UP is unwise for a Tesla owner even after the planned Superchargers are completed. When you get caught in a typical blizzard up there, a high-efficiency tire will get you stuck and there won't be any "20-30 extra miles".

The Michelin A/S 3+ is what I'd consider a UP "summer" tire. You need a studless winter for a big chunk of the winter up there, on top of a guaranteed destination charger.

I was in the Soo last weekend. I didn't take the Tesla, however it turns out the Hampton Inn there has 4 Clipper Creek chargers, so Supercharging in Gaylord means I can make it to and from that hotel charger, barring a major snowstorm. If you plan on going "out west" to Escanaba, or god help you, Ironwood, I would be taking the ICE vehicle.
 
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Who said anything about going there during winter? I try to go there every summer. Maybe around the whole Superior. That's when I need all the miles I can get out of the 3.

In general, please stick to the topic of choosing efficient A/S tires, thanks.

Your topic is "all season tire", and winter is a major season in the UP. You failed to provide use-case in your OP, and it was only when you decided to be a jerk did the main use-case finally come out. If you're trying to make enemies here, you're doing a great job.
 
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Your topic is "all season tire", and winter is a major season in the UP. You failed to provide use-case in your OP, and it was only when you decided to be a jerk did the main use-case finally come out. If you're trying to make enemies here, you're doing a great job.
Buddy, my use case in the title. If you have nothing to contribute please move along, plenty of other threads.
 
Buddy, my use case in the title. If you have nothing to contribute please move along, plenty of other threads.
Who said anything about going there during winter? I try to go there every summer. Maybe around the whole Superior. That's when I need all the miles I can get out of the 3.....

Your title says "snow", and yet your admitted use-case is touring Lake Superior in summer. You call for efficiency because you claim to have range anxiety and also want something "somewhat performancy". You're a whole bouquet of contradictions. You need to make a decision what you're really trying to accomplish here.

You constantly "disagreeing" with my posts, including the really good one with the Tire Rack test, really isn't inviting others to contribute. You know that, right? You've poisoned your own well.
 
Unless the title is unclear, here's an exact description of what the set would do

One option is combining a 'late fall/early spring' set with an efficient road-trip tire set. I currently have Michelin PA4 for the former (on top of full-winter set), and don't have a road-trip set

Anyone with first-hand experience of using A/S 3+ in light snow?
 
All I can think of is DWS 06, but that's probably not an efficient tire.

I'm going to guess that the A/S 3+, DWS 06, and CrossClimates all have the same ballpark efficiency, with the A/S 3+ being very slightly worse than the other two based on what I've read on various forums. I've been running DWS 06 on 18" aeros for the last 2k miles and I'm getting 243 Wh/mi in mixed driving vs. 233 Wh/mi in mixed driving on the OEM MXM4s over 22k miles. I've been pleasantly surprised by the efficiency. I'm guessing the DWS 06 would have done even better if it hadn't been "winter" (by San Diego standards) for the 3 months that I've had them. One caveat is that I run the DWS 06 at 42psi vs the MXM4s at 39psi, because the DWS 06 are actually soft enough that the ride is still smoother than the MXM4s. Handling on the DWS 06 is much better than the MXM4s. My main complaint about the DWS 06 and the main reason I probably won't get them again is that they're are LOUD. I have to bump up the volume 2 notches at freeway speeds to compensate and I still don't hear the music as clearly as before. I'll probably opt for the Pireli P Zero A/S Plus next time.
 
I'm going to guess that the A/S 3+, DWS 06, and CrossClimates all have the same ballpark efficiency,
Consumer Reports have A/S 3+ and DWS 06 at below average, while the CrossClimate+ is above average for efficiency.

Thanks for the DWS 06 feedback. They do rate worse than average on noise in CR as well.


So, I'm deciding between A/S 3+ (which CR rates the same as DWS 06 in snow/ice), Verdestein Quatrac Pro (same efficiency, better snow/ice, worse dry/wet), Verdestein Quatrac 5 (okay grip, the best efficiency), and CrossClimate+ (decent grip, supposedly decent efficiency).

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Your title says "snow", and yet your admitted use-case is touring Lake Superior in summer. You call for efficiency because you claim to have range anxiety and also want something "somewhat performancy". You're a whole bouquet of contradictions. You need to make a decision what you're really trying to accomplish here.

You constantly "disagreeing" with my posts, including the really good one with the Tire Rack test, really isn't inviting others to contribute. You know that, right? You've poisoned your own well.
This thread reads like my wife packing shoes on vacation
 
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i love that the data in that chart equates to .8 MPG of rolling resistance. that's the difference between inflation, load and weight...
Those are for ICE cars where most of losses are in the drivetrain anyway. In my 3 I easily get 10% efficiency difference between 40psi and 45psi, so, choosing proper tires could be worth about as much.

for the OP - what you're looking for is a high-performance winter tire (not a snow tire).
No I'm not, Michelin PA4 in OP are those. I'm looking for an A/S tire that has slightly less winter grip than those, but can be ran in the summer as well.
 
Gonna update this for closure.
I got Cross Climate+ a couple of weeks ago.
No clue on efficiency yet, I expect them to be 5ish percent down on efficiency compare to MXM4 or Quatrac 5. Still better than my summer sets. They are somewhat noisier than stock PS4s and my winter Continental WinterContact 7 in general, and give an odd hum around 60mph. They also sound weird on hard acceleration, making me think it's not good for them. Other than that, the grip is decent. Tried them in mild snow we got a couple of weeks ago. Felt on par with worn Michelin PA4, but didn't get to drive much in those conditions.
 
I got the Cross Climate+ about 6 months ago and also noticed the odd hum around 60 mph. But after about 5-600 miles it disappeared again. I am guessing it had something to do with how the edge of the slats leave the road on a new tire (and that the slat edge gets a little rounded once the tire has done a few miles).

Overall I am quite impressed with the tire - never had a problem with traction (although I haven´t done any snow driving yet). Efficiency seems to have gone up a little bit compared to the Michelin sports summer tires I got the car with but I can´t really tell until I have had them for a full year.
 
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i love that the data in that chart equates to .8 MPG of rolling resistance. that's the difference between inflation, load and weight...

No, this is ICE vehicle MPG, not efficiency percentages. On an average ICE passenger vehicle 26.0 vs 26.8 MPG equates to 1296 vs 1248 Wh/mi so nearly a 50 Wh/mi difference which is certainly pretty huge.

Any reports on Quatrac an range? Is Quatrac pro worse in terms of efficiency than Quatrac 5?

I’ve been researching the exact thing the OP was looking for (a fuel efficient tire that wouldn’t leave me completely stranded off I was caught in a freak sub-zero winter storm). The problem is that people post with questions on all the forums, but are never selfless enough too circle back after they’ve had the tires long enough to really get to know them.

I’ve been considering the 215/50-18 Quadrac Pro or older Quadrac 5 (currently on close out at most retailers) and I’d go with the Pro since it must be better than the 5 or the mfr wouldn’t have made it, but I could easily see the Pro gaining whatever it did at the expense of efficiency.

I bought the cheapest M+S “rated” tire I could get for a winter trip last January and was pleasantly surprised how well they did. But their was once situation where we were on an incline of hardpack snow on a mountain pass road that has been cleared by snow removal equipment, but due to the weather was still extremely challenging. Surely it was dedicated snow tire weather but most other AWD vehicles were able to tentatively maneuver the start, but my P3 would pulse the traction control and we would slowly edge further toward to side of the road where we would then be stick if we didn’t get rolling enough first what made things worse is that selfish idiot drivers behind us took my situation as a sign that my vehicle had broken down and were then passing us on the very side I needed the space to slide towards so o feared continuing trying as I might slide into some idiot passing and they’d blame me.

I don’t have any trouble adjusting my driving down to compensate for very low traction in adverse weather, but if I can’t get moving at all, that’s a no-go. It didn’t help that the tires were 245/35-20 (to fit on the stock P3 wheels which were the only ones I had at the time).

it would be really nice if others would report back their long-term efficiency numbers for some of these tires. I don’t think we can fully trust the ICE-dominated MPG tests because I think the deltas of just fractions of MPG translates to an amplified Wh/mi in our cars, where other factors like aerodynamic efficiency come more into play.

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