Looks like they come fitted with a Brooks sprung saddle as well. Obviously they're paying attention to comfort where it counts.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Electric Bicycles
- Thread starter Robert.Boston
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Electric Vehicles
So as a quick one here, Rad Power Bike [http://www.radpowerbikes.com/] make a good entry level bike, if you're like me, not willing to drop $4k+ on a bike. I've got one of the RadRover's which also looks amazing. Pretty good components, has a good motor and handles my daily commute on a single charge perfectly (I'm a big'un and my commute is 16 miles return).
You may, at some point after that want to go for something a bit more high end, but for now, and for daily commutes, my RadRover does the job very well.
You may, at some point after that want to go for something a bit more high end, but for now, and for daily commutes, my RadRover does the job very well.
EVie'sDad
Member
Interesting idea, but I see something like this might have more appeal, especially since it recharges as you drive!
This Audi has a beautiful electric longboard hidden in its bumper
This Audi has a beautiful electric longboard hidden in its bumper
It's not a bad question because at first glance it seems a bit ridiculous.
But, here are some reasons why I immensely enjoy the Pedal Assist Mountain Bike I got.
SPEED!!! - On a normal bike you're averaging somewhere around 10-15mph depending on terrain. But, on a pedal assist bike you can be hauling arse all the time. How fast really depends on what the pedal assist limiter is set to. Mine defaults to 20mph from the factory, but I can hack to give me assist up to do 28mph. That is important to me because even without assist I do 20mph on the flats.
Commuting - Having an pedal assist bike allows you to commute to work without breaking a sweat. That's great for those of us who don't have a shower at work. On the way home I can use no/low assist and get a better workout.
Long trips - It greatly expands the distances I'll take on simply because I know if my knee starts hurting on the way back that I can use the assist to help me out.
Fun - Sometimes you just want to have fun. It's kinda like a dirt bike with pedals. Whatever the weather is you can go out and play in the mud.
Training - Not me. I'm not into that. But, I can ride with someone training without killing myself in the process.
Lots of people will say it's for lazy fat people. But, it really comes to choosing how assist you want and how fast you want to go. How fast is determined the motor/assist level and the muscle you put into it.
It doesn't replace my other Mountain bike because it's really too heavy for serious mountain biking.
But, it's definitely an awesome all around bike.
I am looking into making my own. What I'd like is a very small battery plus motor that's really meant just to increase efficiency. Where I can force it to regen on flats and use the energy on hills or when I want to go really fast for a brief burst. I don't want to overly increase the weight of the bike.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I've owned an Optibike Pioneer Allroad for about 2 years. It's a high quality bike with a mid drive motor on the crank. It's a pedal assist with a top speed around 23 mph, and it effortlessly cruises at 17 to 18 mph. It's not as heavy as many other ebikes. It's been a joy to own. Optibike is based in Colorado and they assemble all their bikes in the USA. www.optibike.com
Last edited:
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Earlier in this thread I posted about my 2014 Specialized Turbo S. I put, I dunno, probably about 9,000 miles on it before selling it recently. (It stopped displaying miles at about 6,000). It was fantastic for the road riding I used to do.
We moved in January, and most of the roads near the new house have higher speed limits and smaller shoulders. However, there are a lot of better trails. So I replaced the Turbo S (a very stiff road/commuter bike) with a full-suspension 2019 Turbo Levo Expert.
This is the first bike I have ever owned with a suspension, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. I'm also riding it a lot more often - for some reason I didn't want to ride the Turbo S when the roads were wet (maybe because the original tires were slicks?) so living in the PNW, most days I went walking instead. But now I am biking pretty much every day.
I feel a little sick about how much I spent on it (I didn't get a 40%-off sale like I did with the Turbo S) but just like a Tesla, man that melts away when you are riding it. Smooth, quiet, powerful, great handling, comfortable, 700wh battery, and it absorbs an awful lot of bumps - I hated even riding the old bike on packed gravel. I love the minimalist interface too - there is a power button on the top bar; press it, and you get 1-10 energy bars, and a 1-3 power assist level (which stay on by default...but you can set them to turn off after a second, and they only come briefly back on if you change the assist level). There are inconspicuous up/down buttons on the handle bars that let you change the assist level on the fly. And...that's it. No display (you can add one; but I am happier without it). But you can connect your phone via bluetooth and get all sorts of info if you want. I also like the styling, which doesn't scream e-bike.
The reviews of its offroading capabilities have been fantastic, although I didn't buy it for that - I'm not using anywhere near its handling and jumping capabilities. I just needed a bike with a lot of power, and energy, and shock absorption to mitigate joint pain and avoid joint damage. I wanted something that could both ride the local trails for daily exercise, and accompany my wife on a ride to Snoqualmie Pass or around the Puget Sound area (I used to be a lot faster than her, but these days I couldn't begin to keep up without the electric assist). There are bikes with 90% of the capability for half the price, but this one is a little lighter, a little more powerful, has a little more energy...and I'm taking full advantage of all of those. (I am only counting bikes I could get from a local shop. There's all sorts of great-sounding deals on the internet, but most - Optibike was an exception - are way heavier than I like, and I didn't have a good way to evaluate fit, suspension or comfort before I bought it).
I have done a few tiny mods so far...fenders, seat, grips, phone/storage bag. I need to raise the handlebars; I am currently looking at bars, stems and risers.
We moved in January, and most of the roads near the new house have higher speed limits and smaller shoulders. However, there are a lot of better trails. So I replaced the Turbo S (a very stiff road/commuter bike) with a full-suspension 2019 Turbo Levo Expert.
This is the first bike I have ever owned with a suspension, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. I'm also riding it a lot more often - for some reason I didn't want to ride the Turbo S when the roads were wet (maybe because the original tires were slicks?) so living in the PNW, most days I went walking instead. But now I am biking pretty much every day.
I feel a little sick about how much I spent on it (I didn't get a 40%-off sale like I did with the Turbo S) but just like a Tesla, man that melts away when you are riding it. Smooth, quiet, powerful, great handling, comfortable, 700wh battery, and it absorbs an awful lot of bumps - I hated even riding the old bike on packed gravel. I love the minimalist interface too - there is a power button on the top bar; press it, and you get 1-10 energy bars, and a 1-3 power assist level (which stay on by default...but you can set them to turn off after a second, and they only come briefly back on if you change the assist level). There are inconspicuous up/down buttons on the handle bars that let you change the assist level on the fly. And...that's it. No display (you can add one; but I am happier without it). But you can connect your phone via bluetooth and get all sorts of info if you want. I also like the styling, which doesn't scream e-bike.
The reviews of its offroading capabilities have been fantastic, although I didn't buy it for that - I'm not using anywhere near its handling and jumping capabilities. I just needed a bike with a lot of power, and energy, and shock absorption to mitigate joint pain and avoid joint damage. I wanted something that could both ride the local trails for daily exercise, and accompany my wife on a ride to Snoqualmie Pass or around the Puget Sound area (I used to be a lot faster than her, but these days I couldn't begin to keep up without the electric assist). There are bikes with 90% of the capability for half the price, but this one is a little lighter, a little more powerful, has a little more energy...and I'm taking full advantage of all of those. (I am only counting bikes I could get from a local shop. There's all sorts of great-sounding deals on the internet, but most - Optibike was an exception - are way heavier than I like, and I didn't have a good way to evaluate fit, suspension or comfort before I bought it).
I have done a few tiny mods so far...fenders, seat, grips, phone/storage bag. I need to raise the handlebars; I am currently looking at bars, stems and risers.
Last edited:
Bought the same bike. On my way to work, its mostly a loose gravel/stone type path. I feel so much better on this than the skinny tire (non-electric) bike i had previous. I bought full suspension for the exact same reason, to go easy on my joints.
bought this for the back...which has worked super well to carry the lock/jacket/phone/etc.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B002YSN5W6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
bought this for the back...which has worked super well to carry the lock/jacket/phone/etc.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B002YSN5W6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
@ChadS, I hate you for posting this. I've spent far too much time looking at this bike, and I'm trying to leave for a camping trip! Seriously looks amazing, guys. I need to try one at some point. I used to be an avid cyclist but I hurt my back and riding kills me. I wonder if this kind of bike would change things.
Earlier in this thread I posted about my 2014 Specialized Turbo S. I put, I dunno, probably about 9,000 miles on it before selling it recently. (It stopped displaying miles at about 6,000). It was fantastic for the road riding I used to do.
We moved in January, and most of the roads near the new house have higher speed limits and smaller shoulders. However, there are a lot of better trails. So I replaced the Turbo S (a very stiff road/commuter bike) with a full-suspension 2019 Turbo Levo Expert.
This is the first bike I have ever owned with a suspension, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. I'm also riding it a lot more often - for some reason I didn't want to ride the Turbo S when the roads were wet (maybe because the original tires were slicks?) so living in the PNW, most days I went walking instead. But now I am biking pretty much every day.
I feel a little sick about how much I spent on it (I didn't get a 40%-off sale like I did with the Turbo S) but just like a Tesla, man that melts away when you are riding it. Smooth, quiet, powerful, great handling, comfortable, 700wh battery, and it absorbs an awful lot of bumps - I hated even riding the old bike on packed gravel. I love the minimalist interface too - there is a power button on the top bar; press it, and you get 1-10 energy bars, and a 1-3 power assist level (which stay on by default...but you can set them to turn off after a second, and they only come briefly back on if you change the assist level). There are inconspicuous up/down buttons on the handle bars that let you change the assist level on the fly. And...that's it. No display (you can add one; but I am happier without it). But you can connect your phone via bluetooth and get all sorts of info if you want. I also like the styling, which doesn't scream e-bike.
The reviews of its offroading capabilities have been fantastic, although I didn't buy it for that - I'm not using anywhere near its handling and jumping capabilities. I just needed a bike with a lot of power, and energy, and shock absorption to mitigate joint pain and avoid joint damage. I wanted something that could both ride the local trails for daily exercise, and accompany my wife on a ride to Snoqualmie Pass or around the Puget Sound area (I used to be a lot faster than her, but these days I couldn't begin to keep up without the electric assist). There are bikes with 90% of the capability for half the price, but this one is a little lighter, a little more powerful, has a little more energy...and I'm taking full advantage of all of those. (I am only counting bikes I could get from a local shop. There's all sorts of great-sounding deals on the internet, but most - Optibike was an exception - are way heavier than I like, and I didn't have a good way to evaluate fit, suspension or comfort before I bought it).
I have done a
Definitely worth a try. As you go a bit faster, it still can be bumpy...but seriously full suspension is the way to go. For the record I have the 2017 version.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Earlier in this thread I posted about my 2014 Specialized Turbo S. I put, I dunno, probably about 9,000 miles on it before selling it recently. (It stopped displaying miles at about 6,000). It was fantastic for the road riding I used to do.
We moved in January, and most of the roads near the new house have higher speed limits and smaller shoulders. However, there are a lot of better trails. So I replaced the Turbo S (a very stiff road/commuter bike) with a full-suspension 2019 Turbo Levo Expert.
This is the first bike I have ever owned with a suspension, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. I'm also riding it a lot more often - for some reason I didn't want to ride the Turbo S when the roads were wet (maybe because the original tires were slicks?) so living in the PNW, most days I went walking instead. But now I am biking pretty much every day.
I feel a little sick about how much I spent on it (I didn't get a 40%-off sale like I did with the Turbo S) but just like a Tesla, man that melts away when you are riding it. Smooth, quiet, powerful, great handling, comfortable, 700wh battery, and it absorbs an awful lot of bumps - I hated even riding the old bike on packed gravel. I love the minimalist interface too - there is a power button on the top bar; press it, and you get 1-10 energy bars, and a 1-3 power assist level (which stay on by default...but you can set them to turn off after a second, and they only come briefly back on if you change the assist level). There are inconspicuous up/down buttons on the handle bars that let you change the assist level on the fly. And...that's it. No display (you can add one; but I am happier without it). But you can connect your phone via bluetooth and get all sorts of info if you want. I also like the styling, which doesn't scream e-bike.
The reviews of its offroading capabilities have been fantastic, although I didn't buy it for that - I'm not using anywhere near its handling and jumping capabilities. I just needed a bike with a lot of power, and energy, and shock absorption to mitigate joint pain and avoid joint damage. I wanted something that could both ride the local trails for daily exercise, and accompany my wife on a ride to Snoqualmie Pass or around the Puget Sound area (I used to be a lot faster than her, but these days I couldn't begin to keep up without the electric assist). There are bikes with 90% of the capability for half the price, but this one is a little lighter, a little more powerful, has a little more energy...and I'm taking full advantage of all of those. (I am only counting bikes I could get from a local shop. There's all sorts of great-sounding deals on the internet, but most - Optibike was an exception - are way heavier than I like, and I didn't have a good way to evaluate fit, suspension or comfort before I bought it).
I have done a few tiny mods so far...fenders, seat, grips, phone/storage bag. I need to raise the handlebars; I am currently looking at bars, stems and risers.
Almost exactly two years later, I sold the Levo.
Mind you, it was a dream to ride. I continued to ride almost every day; I probably put on around 8,000 miles in 2 years (and it would have been more, if I could have ridden it whenever I wanted to). It did everything I wanted, and could easily have handled more than I threw at it. I didn't sell it because I didn't like riding it.
My problem was uptime. Here are some of the things that at various times kept me from riding it:
- motor failure (it was actually replaced twice, but the first time I could still ride it)
- charging port cover broken (bike won't turn on without it)
- free hub failure
- two broken chains
- cassette and chainring worn beyond use
- rear shock seal failure
To be fair, I put on a lot of miles, and some of these failures could have been avoided with more than my once-a-year maintenance. Unfortunately, with the miles I put on, it would have had to have been every 3 months to avoid some of these catastrophic failures, and it probably would have run about $1,500/year. I decided it was more bike than I needed, so I looked for something cheaper that would require less maintenance and hopefully have more uptime.
I have something new that I hope will do the trick. But that's for another post.
Other (far more minor) issues I had with the Levo:
- There was no way to lock the $1200 battery to the bike. Whenever I was going to park the bike somewhere, I took my $800 backup bike instead.
- The battery was a royal pain to remove, completely unlike my 2015 Specialized Turbo S, which was easy to remove and lock.
- No lights, no fenders, no rack, no kickstand...and no easy place to mount them, either.
- The frame design did not lend itself to mounting on a traditional frame-mount rack.
- While the knobby tires had great grip on wet pavement, gravel and dirt, they were very poor in mud and snow, and were pretty rough on many pavement irregularities. I was surprised to test-ride another bike with no suspension and find out it was quite a bit smoother on nearby pavement.
- Class 1 speed limit too easy to hit, and too limiting on local 25mph narrow shoulderless roads. (Although I did find a fantastic, reasonably-priced solution: I created a purely mechanical Turbo Levo speed limit increase - EMTB Forums)
- I liked the sleek no-display look, and usually didn't need a display...but I've since had two bikes with a display and yeah, they can be pretty handy
- The gears went lower than necessary, but not very high. When going down a big hill, my wife could coast past me on her non-e road bike even if I was pedalling as fast as I could.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
A typo above: quarterly maintenance for the Levo would have run about $2,500 per year. I guess maybe I should have looked in to that a little more before I bought it. Lesson learned.
I mentioned a backup bike, which I'll discuss here because I learned something from it too.
I ended up buying an $800 NCM Prague from Leon Cycle. They mostly sell online, but their US warehouse is less than 20 miles away, and they are happy to let local people look at the bikes, and you can take a bike in for service if you need to.
(Picture shows the bike with fenders and raised handlebars that I added. I also added lights and changed grips, seat, and seat post, but removed them for this picture)
Despite the "mountain bike" description, it's not really a good off-road bike. It's closer to a gravel bike. But that's OK, it largely suited my needs - in fact, I was pretty impressed by the value. With one important exception (that I will get in to below) it served its duties as a backup e-bike and as a trip e-bike very well. It has plenty of power, rides decently, most parts are standard sizes and brand-names that are easy to replace or customize, and the few e-bike custom parts are cheap to replace from Leon Cycle.
But of course there was a major downside (for me; not everyone will care). And it's one I should have seen before I bought it. My two previous e-bikes had real-time adjustable assist levels, and a torque sensor so they could base the assist level on my output. I knew that not all bikes had those. But I saw a picture of the display that showed a number that was labeled as "six levels of assist". So I bought it assuming I could easily adjust the assist as needed for optimal exercise, hills, or matching speeds with my wife.
It turns out that by "levels of assist", they mean the speed at which assist goes from 100% to 0%. You could adjust it from 7mph to 20mph. But when assist is on, it's ALL on. This made it really hard to match speeds when riding with my wife. Even pedaling less (and not getting any exercise) wouldn't work; as long as you were pedaling at all, you got 100% assist.
There actually was a way to adjust the assist level, but it was in a "hidden menu" that you have to stop the bike to change. And there were only 3 levels; even the lowest level of assist was still too high for riding with my wife. Bummer. It also made it hard to get the right amount of exercise when riding by myself - unless I was going uphill, it was too easy with all that assist to get to the 20mph limit, and then it would cut off, but it was too hard on my crappy knees to maintain 20mph without assist on the flats.
A smaller but fairly annoying problem (that probably nobody needs to read about, but I already typed it) was the battery display. My other bikes have shown the battery level in a fair amount of detail and have been pretty accurate. But the Prague had one reading on the display, and one on the battery. They didn't always agree. The one on the display went from 1 to 6. It would stay at 6 for a long time, then start dropping fast. Sometimes it would drop all the way to 1, then later move up to 3. It wasn't just a voltage sag issue, as it didn't just happen under load.
The meter on the battery went from 1 to 4. It didn't always seem to agree with the display meter. Worse, when charging, it behaved as battery displays normally do when discharging. When discharging, you expect all four lights on when the battery is in the 75-100% range, three lights in the 50-75% range, etc. But when charging, you want it to have one less light, so that last light doesn't come on until you hit 100% and then you know it's full. It didn't do that; the fourth light came on at 75%, so it was really hard to know how full the battery was while charging. And given how unreliable the display meter was, I didn't want to leave on a ride unless it was full. But of course the balancing portion at the end took forever, so you didn't know it was really full until the charger turned off.
The Prague was cheap, a great value, and would work great for many people. I was extremely happy to have it as a "backup" bike when the Levo was in the shop. But not being able to ride it alongside my wife meant it didn't meet my goal of being a "trip" bike. Dang. I guess this is my punishment for not putting any effort in to learning anything about bikes in years past - I'm learning everything now the hard way.
I mentioned a backup bike, which I'll discuss here because I learned something from it too.
Background on what I was looking for that you may not care about; you can skip to the chase below: I tried an acoustic bike as a backup when the Levo first disappeared into the shop, but that only worked for a few days before I started having knee issues (I have a joint disease; my doctor told me to stop biking a decade ago, but e-bikes are keeping me in the game).
I didn't want a second e-bike, but I liked the Levo, wasn't sure what I'd replace it with, and at the time it seemed like the best solution. I looked for something cheap that could also solve the "Levo trip problems" - the Levo didn't fit on my wife's bike rack, and it was so expensive I was worried about transporting it and leaving it anywhere, especially since it didn't have a kickstand, was such a pain to remove the battery, and it couldn't be locked. So I wanted a cheap, not-too-heavy e-bike that fit on a rack and had a locking battery; then in addition to having an e-backup, I could take it rather than the Levo on our bike outings even when the Levo was around. A kickstand would be a plus too.
I don't like to buy bikes over the internet - I want to make sure they fit before I buy them, and I want a local place to take them in for service. That narrows down the options quite a bit.
I ended up buying an $800 NCM Prague from Leon Cycle. They mostly sell online, but their US warehouse is less than 20 miles away, and they are happy to let local people look at the bikes, and you can take a bike in for service if you need to.
(Picture shows the bike with fenders and raised handlebars that I added. I also added lights and changed grips, seat, and seat post, but removed them for this picture)
Despite the "mountain bike" description, it's not really a good off-road bike. It's closer to a gravel bike. But that's OK, it largely suited my needs - in fact, I was pretty impressed by the value. With one important exception (that I will get in to below) it served its duties as a backup e-bike and as a trip e-bike very well. It has plenty of power, rides decently, most parts are standard sizes and brand-names that are easy to replace or customize, and the few e-bike custom parts are cheap to replace from Leon Cycle.
But of course there was a major downside (for me; not everyone will care). And it's one I should have seen before I bought it. My two previous e-bikes had real-time adjustable assist levels, and a torque sensor so they could base the assist level on my output. I knew that not all bikes had those. But I saw a picture of the display that showed a number that was labeled as "six levels of assist". So I bought it assuming I could easily adjust the assist as needed for optimal exercise, hills, or matching speeds with my wife.
It turns out that by "levels of assist", they mean the speed at which assist goes from 100% to 0%. You could adjust it from 7mph to 20mph. But when assist is on, it's ALL on. This made it really hard to match speeds when riding with my wife. Even pedaling less (and not getting any exercise) wouldn't work; as long as you were pedaling at all, you got 100% assist.
There actually was a way to adjust the assist level, but it was in a "hidden menu" that you have to stop the bike to change. And there were only 3 levels; even the lowest level of assist was still too high for riding with my wife. Bummer. It also made it hard to get the right amount of exercise when riding by myself - unless I was going uphill, it was too easy with all that assist to get to the 20mph limit, and then it would cut off, but it was too hard on my crappy knees to maintain 20mph without assist on the flats.
A smaller but fairly annoying problem (that probably nobody needs to read about, but I already typed it) was the battery display. My other bikes have shown the battery level in a fair amount of detail and have been pretty accurate. But the Prague had one reading on the display, and one on the battery. They didn't always agree. The one on the display went from 1 to 6. It would stay at 6 for a long time, then start dropping fast. Sometimes it would drop all the way to 1, then later move up to 3. It wasn't just a voltage sag issue, as it didn't just happen under load.
The meter on the battery went from 1 to 4. It didn't always seem to agree with the display meter. Worse, when charging, it behaved as battery displays normally do when discharging. When discharging, you expect all four lights on when the battery is in the 75-100% range, three lights in the 50-75% range, etc. But when charging, you want it to have one less light, so that last light doesn't come on until you hit 100% and then you know it's full. It didn't do that; the fourth light came on at 75%, so it was really hard to know how full the battery was while charging. And given how unreliable the display meter was, I didn't want to leave on a ride unless it was full. But of course the balancing portion at the end took forever, so you didn't know it was really full until the charger turned off.
The Prague was cheap, a great value, and would work great for many people. I was extremely happy to have it as a "backup" bike when the Levo was in the shop. But not being able to ride it alongside my wife meant it didn't meet my goal of being a "trip" bike. Dang. I guess this is my punishment for not putting any effort in to learning anything about bikes in years past - I'm learning everything now the hard way.
Last edited:
i would buy a motor scooter for less $$ or similar $$ before an electric bike. WAYYYY OVERPRICED for what it is. Sure the scooter is gas but 100mpg is way better then only a few miles on the bike with the battery.And in general the bike weighs more then a standard bike so when out of juice its harder to pedal. Eveb a 50-80cc scooter doesnt need insurance or lisence to drive.
I think with @ChadS putting 9000 and 8000 miles on his last two primary e-bikes, respectively, he's probably getting enough value out of them for the purchase price (though maybe not that quarterly service). Plus, as they say, silence is golden. There's value in a quiet, clean ride.
It's worth noting that non-electric bikes can cost more than a scooter, too. My Yeti SB100 was well over $5k, no batteries or motor. I still haven't purchased an e-bike, but after mountain biking with my 14 year old son and having him crush me on some hills, I either need to get in better shape fast or get an e-bike. I can't be having that.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Above, I noted that while my Levo was fantastic to ride, I was unhappy with maintenance/reliability/uptime. So what bikes do I think (well, hope) will be better? Below are 3 that I have looked at recently.
I'm no biking expert, and I especially don't have any data on reliability. These are just the thoughts of a guy trying to have a bike around that I can ride every day. Ideally without maintenance, as I am lazy. Input is welcome!
There are MANY considerations that go in to picking an e-bike. Price, fit, class, off-road ability, cargo capacity, styling, energy, power, weight, comfort, handling, accessories, local service, efficiency, noise, etc. What I'm looking for may very well may not be what you are looking for. Different opinions are welcome, but just to set the stage, here are the top things I am looking for:
So what do I mean by reliable? Well, something that may avoid common failure points (or at least ones I have hit). Those include:
The first bike I looked at was Riese & Muller. I looked at a few, but started with the Nevo 3. Belt drive, Rohloff (OR Enviolo) hub, hardtail, Bosch motor and battery, huge battery option, Class 3 option, large tire option. It seemed I could make it comfy, and it met pretty much all of my reliability criteria. I went to a great local shop (not terribly close, but close enough if it's my only choice) and test drove some. I ended up passing because: awfully expensive, awfully heavy, don't fit on a rack, really noisy (in retrospect, may just have been Class 3 option), they just felt kind of sluggish, and...the shop owner (honest guy! really looking out for my needs) pointed out their service department is busy, and while Rohloff is reliable, parts take a long time to arrive when you need them. These appear to be very well-built, and I believe it would be both durable and reliable...but after riding the lovely Levo, this was a hard thing for me to get excited about.
Then I started reading and learned about the Serial 1 that was coming out. It's a spinoff from Harley-Davidson, designed by their engineers and tested with much of their motorcycle testing equipment. Belt drive, Enviolo hub, no suspension, Brose motor, Livewire-team-designed 709Wh battery, Class 3 option, 27.5x2.4" tires. It seemed like exactly what I wanted, and when I rode one, I loved it. All I needed was to pick the right size to make me comfy. That's when I noticed that they route their cables through the handlebars and stem. It looks GREAT, but those are the things I typically modify to get a bike to fit. Their user manual says it has a 31.8mm threadless stem under their cap, so if I pull off all the cables and reroute them, theoretically I can get it to fit. I'm not sure I've got the tools or expertise, and the local Harley dealer had no idea what I was talking about and didn't seem excited about learning. I still have my eye on these, but I have passed for now. Too bad.
The Pedego Conveyor has the same commuter-style, no-suspension vibe as the Serial 1. Same tires and motor. Smaller battery, no Class 3 option, and a lesser-range Alfine 8 instead of an Enviolo. It's also discontinued. But they gave me a big discount, they have a 5 year warranty and stock parts for 10 years, service is close by, and the handlebars and stem were easy to replace (although still limited by a short front brake cable). It fits on our bike rack, has all the accessories except a rack, battery is lockable and easy to remove. After raising the handlebars and adding suspension seat post and stem, it is comfy, quiet (except for a rattle I have to chase down), and fun to ride. It is a few pounds lighter than the Serial 1 too.
Ideally it would have a larger battery, larger gear range, and Class 3 ability. But fortunately, I am doing just fine without those.
With the carbon-fiber belt and internal geared hub and no suspension, I am HOPING for a long and reliable life. We shall see. A post with new "lessons learned" to commence in 5, 4, 3...
I'm no biking expert, and I especially don't have any data on reliability. These are just the thoughts of a guy trying to have a bike around that I can ride every day. Ideally without maintenance, as I am lazy. Input is welcome!
There are MANY considerations that go in to picking an e-bike. Price, fit, class, off-road ability, cargo capacity, styling, energy, power, weight, comfort, handling, accessories, local service, efficiency, noise, etc. What I'm looking for may very well may not be what you are looking for. Different opinions are welcome, but just to set the stage, here are the top things I am looking for:
- Fit/comfort. This will obviously vary by person, so I won't go in to much detail here. But I want to ride it every day for exercise, so I want to WANT to ride it, and not be in pain
- Reliability. I ride every day, and I want the bike to be there with me. More details below.
- Torque sensor, with adjustable assist up to at least 50nm (so I can match my wife's speed, get decent exercise, and not overtax my finicky knees)
- At least 450Wh battery
- Local service option
So what do I mean by reliable? Well, something that may avoid common failure points (or at least ones I have hit). Those include:
- Flat tire. Large, low-pressure tires with puncture protection seem best (they also add comfort if you are buying a bike without a suspension)
- Broken chain. Hub drive could help; so could belt drive
- Worn cassette/chainring. Checking chain frequently and replacing at first sign of wear could help. Belt drive could help, especially if you get an internal geared hub. Rohloff and Enviolo have great gear range. Alfine 11 doesn't seem reliable. Alfine 8 has lesser range, but might work.
- Failed rear suspension seal. Hardtail could help (I can add a Kinekt 2.1 seat post suspension). Although note that a suspension protects bike components from shocks in addition to the rider
- Failed front fork seal. No suspension could help (I can add a Kinekt suspension stem)
- Motor failure. Hmm. Brand name with good rep? Rated for high power, but don't use it all? Adjustable assist so the motor is not on 100% all the time?
- Battery failure. Double hmm. Larger battery so it's less stressed?
The first bike I looked at was Riese & Muller. I looked at a few, but started with the Nevo 3. Belt drive, Rohloff (OR Enviolo) hub, hardtail, Bosch motor and battery, huge battery option, Class 3 option, large tire option. It seemed I could make it comfy, and it met pretty much all of my reliability criteria. I went to a great local shop (not terribly close, but close enough if it's my only choice) and test drove some. I ended up passing because: awfully expensive, awfully heavy, don't fit on a rack, really noisy (in retrospect, may just have been Class 3 option), they just felt kind of sluggish, and...the shop owner (honest guy! really looking out for my needs) pointed out their service department is busy, and while Rohloff is reliable, parts take a long time to arrive when you need them. These appear to be very well-built, and I believe it would be both durable and reliable...but after riding the lovely Levo, this was a hard thing for me to get excited about.
Then I started reading and learned about the Serial 1 that was coming out. It's a spinoff from Harley-Davidson, designed by their engineers and tested with much of their motorcycle testing equipment. Belt drive, Enviolo hub, no suspension, Brose motor, Livewire-team-designed 709Wh battery, Class 3 option, 27.5x2.4" tires. It seemed like exactly what I wanted, and when I rode one, I loved it. All I needed was to pick the right size to make me comfy. That's when I noticed that they route their cables through the handlebars and stem. It looks GREAT, but those are the things I typically modify to get a bike to fit. Their user manual says it has a 31.8mm threadless stem under their cap, so if I pull off all the cables and reroute them, theoretically I can get it to fit. I'm not sure I've got the tools or expertise, and the local Harley dealer had no idea what I was talking about and didn't seem excited about learning. I still have my eye on these, but I have passed for now. Too bad.
The Pedego Conveyor has the same commuter-style, no-suspension vibe as the Serial 1. Same tires and motor. Smaller battery, no Class 3 option, and a lesser-range Alfine 8 instead of an Enviolo. It's also discontinued. But they gave me a big discount, they have a 5 year warranty and stock parts for 10 years, service is close by, and the handlebars and stem were easy to replace (although still limited by a short front brake cable). It fits on our bike rack, has all the accessories except a rack, battery is lockable and easy to remove. After raising the handlebars and adding suspension seat post and stem, it is comfy, quiet (except for a rattle I have to chase down), and fun to ride. It is a few pounds lighter than the Serial 1 too.
Ideally it would have a larger battery, larger gear range, and Class 3 ability. But fortunately, I am doing just fine without those.
With the carbon-fiber belt and internal geared hub and no suspension, I am HOPING for a long and reliable life. We shall see. A post with new "lessons learned" to commence in 5, 4, 3...
Last edited:
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
DIfferent people want different things. Some insist on e-bikes with a throttle, because they want something similar to a scooter that lets them go places without a car - or just be outside moving around, more as a social activity - without exerting themselves. While I occasionally miss my old motorcycle and see how a scooter-style-bike can be a draw, I already have an efficient and fun EV that can transport me well, and I'm not in a city center where traffic and parking are large issues. So this is not what I personally am looking for.
For me, the e-bike is for exercise. (Well, primarily - I do take it instead of my car sometimes. But even then, often it's to get more exercise). I can ride a regular bike on good days, but to ride daily without messing up my knees - especially with all the hills around here - I need an e-bike.
Because I'm looking for exercise, I don't need a throttle. The amount of assist my knees requires varies, as does my speed if I am matching my wife's speed, AND I don't want more assist than necessary because I'm looking for as much exercise as my knees will allow...so I am only interested in bikes with torque sensors that can adjust the amount of torque the bike applies.
Range varies in e-bikes even more than in EVs, because of many similar factors PLUS the enormous rider-input factor. Any ebike can go 100 miles (or infinitely far), if you pedal enough. But that's not helpful; I imagine you are wondering how far it could go with no input, just using a throttle. That's not something I've been looking in to so don't expect a well-informed answer, but I know there are some bikes that will take two large batteries, and if you keep it to low speeds then 100 miles might be possible with some bikes. But at low speeds, I don't know that you'd want to! There is probably a specialty e-bike somewhere that can go 100 miles at higher speeds, but I haven't been looking for it.
For me, the e-bike is for exercise. (Well, primarily - I do take it instead of my car sometimes. But even then, often it's to get more exercise). I can ride a regular bike on good days, but to ride daily without messing up my knees - especially with all the hills around here - I need an e-bike.
Because I'm looking for exercise, I don't need a throttle. The amount of assist my knees requires varies, as does my speed if I am matching my wife's speed, AND I don't want more assist than necessary because I'm looking for as much exercise as my knees will allow...so I am only interested in bikes with torque sensors that can adjust the amount of torque the bike applies.
Range varies in e-bikes even more than in EVs, because of many similar factors PLUS the enormous rider-input factor. Any ebike can go 100 miles (or infinitely far), if you pedal enough. But that's not helpful; I imagine you are wondering how far it could go with no input, just using a throttle. That's not something I've been looking in to so don't expect a well-informed answer, but I know there are some bikes that will take two large batteries, and if you keep it to low speeds then 100 miles might be possible with some bikes. But at low speeds, I don't know that you'd want to! There is probably a specialty e-bike somewhere that can go 100 miles at higher speeds, but I haven't been looking for it.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Less than a year later, my Pedego Conveyor is gone.
Like the Levo before it, it's not gone because I didn't enjoy riding it. Sure, I would have liked a Class 3 bike, another gear or two at the top end, and a little more battery. But those weren't really a big deal, and the bike was really comfortable (well, after several modifications) and low-maintenance. With the belt drive, internal-gear hub, and no suspension, I didn't even bother to wash it. I just got on and rode every day - ah, my dream bike. It was comfy and simple for daily exercise, and easy to match my wife's speed when we went out together. Between the belt drive and Brose motor, it was extremely smooth and quiet.
But alas, things still went wrong. I'd only had it a couple of months when it would occasionally stop charging. It would finish charging if I restarted it...but by then it was sometimes too late to take the ride I had planned. It would also occasionally turn itself off while I was riding - all I had to do was turn it back on, but still. The local store tested the battery, confirmed it was bad (some bad cells), and I got a new one under warranty. Great.
That lasted a few more months...then suddenly one day the bike wouldn't turn on at all. Another verified bad battery (discharge port failure), and another warranty replacement. I got a little concerned...I knew the Conveyor had been discontinued before I bought it, but it had a 5-year warranty and they said they stock parts for 10 years. But did they just stock old batteries? Would they all have a problem?
10 days later...it was difficult to turn the bike on. It had to be plugged in (difficult if it gets turned off on a ride!) and you had to try many times. They figured it was probably a controller rather than the battery, just bad luck that it happened at about the same time. I got a new controller.
10 days later...the power assist kept fading in and out. They weren't sure what the problem was, but by this time it was clear the bike wasn't going to meet my reliability standards. The local shop agreed (in fact they were saying so before I was), and offered to replace it with any bike they had in stock - they'd move over all my accessories, include a year's maintenance, etc. It was a generous offer, but unfortunately none of their bikes met my criteria. So they gave me a refund. I'd put...I dunno, maybe 3,000 miles on the bike and offered to take a partial refund, but they refunded everything. Kudos to them.
Too bad; I really liked that bike, and with a supportive local shop and 5-year warranty, I had hoped to keep it for a while. Maybe I should (?) have known there would be problems with a discontinued bike? I dunno. I am not entirely sure how to apply this lesson going forward.
Like the Levo before it, it's not gone because I didn't enjoy riding it. Sure, I would have liked a Class 3 bike, another gear or two at the top end, and a little more battery. But those weren't really a big deal, and the bike was really comfortable (well, after several modifications) and low-maintenance. With the belt drive, internal-gear hub, and no suspension, I didn't even bother to wash it. I just got on and rode every day - ah, my dream bike. It was comfy and simple for daily exercise, and easy to match my wife's speed when we went out together. Between the belt drive and Brose motor, it was extremely smooth and quiet.
But alas, things still went wrong. I'd only had it a couple of months when it would occasionally stop charging. It would finish charging if I restarted it...but by then it was sometimes too late to take the ride I had planned. It would also occasionally turn itself off while I was riding - all I had to do was turn it back on, but still. The local store tested the battery, confirmed it was bad (some bad cells), and I got a new one under warranty. Great.
That lasted a few more months...then suddenly one day the bike wouldn't turn on at all. Another verified bad battery (discharge port failure), and another warranty replacement. I got a little concerned...I knew the Conveyor had been discontinued before I bought it, but it had a 5-year warranty and they said they stock parts for 10 years. But did they just stock old batteries? Would they all have a problem?
10 days later...it was difficult to turn the bike on. It had to be plugged in (difficult if it gets turned off on a ride!) and you had to try many times. They figured it was probably a controller rather than the battery, just bad luck that it happened at about the same time. I got a new controller.
10 days later...the power assist kept fading in and out. They weren't sure what the problem was, but by this time it was clear the bike wasn't going to meet my reliability standards. The local shop agreed (in fact they were saying so before I was), and offered to replace it with any bike they had in stock - they'd move over all my accessories, include a year's maintenance, etc. It was a generous offer, but unfortunately none of their bikes met my criteria. So they gave me a refund. I'd put...I dunno, maybe 3,000 miles on the bike and offered to take a partial refund, but they refunded everything. Kudos to them.
Too bad; I really liked that bike, and with a supportive local shop and 5-year warranty, I had hoped to keep it for a while. Maybe I should (?) have known there would be problems with a discontinued bike? I dunno. I am not entirely sure how to apply this lesson going forward.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
AudubonB, I did look at a couple of other bikes before buying the Conveyor - they are mentioned in post 95 from May 2021.
The Conveyor replacement bits didn't generally appear right away, so I was again at times without my daily rider. But that wasn't a terribly big deal, because I had a reasonable backup. I couldn't find an inexpensive low-maintenance backup e-bike, so I built one.
A neighbor was selling a near-new Priority Classic Plus in my size. They aren't fancy bikes, but they are fairly light, and they have belt drives and internal gear hubs - and no suspension. So low-maintenance, great. After a bunch of measuring and searching, I found a waterproof Ebikeling kit that would fit, and found a 432Wh Hailong battery that worked with the Ebikeling's connector. The kit included 500W motor (threaded in to a wheel), controller, cadence sensor, display, control pad, motor cutoff brake handles, and a thumb throttle.
Then I added ergo grips, threaded-to-threadless stem adapter, Redshift shock stem, riser bars, Kinekt isolation seatpost, Hobson easyseat, mirror, lights, rack, fenders.
It was really easy to put together. The hardest part, by far, was verifying - before purchase - that everything would fit. I'm in to it about $1,000 (partly because I had some pieces lying around).
The bike works pretty well. I can make it up any hill easily, and I can generally make it match my wife's speed when we are riding together. It can be configured as Class 1, 2, 3 or unrestricted. It has 9 levels of assist (I usually ride with it in the middle). The whole thing is only 42lbs, and it is easy to put on a bike rack. A typical 15-mile ride, with lots of hills, only takes about 1/3 of the battery.
I haven't had any problems, but if I do, it seems really easy to replace most of the parts.
There are, of course, downsides:
The Conveyor replacement bits didn't generally appear right away, so I was again at times without my daily rider. But that wasn't a terribly big deal, because I had a reasonable backup. I couldn't find an inexpensive low-maintenance backup e-bike, so I built one.
A neighbor was selling a near-new Priority Classic Plus in my size. They aren't fancy bikes, but they are fairly light, and they have belt drives and internal gear hubs - and no suspension. So low-maintenance, great. After a bunch of measuring and searching, I found a waterproof Ebikeling kit that would fit, and found a 432Wh Hailong battery that worked with the Ebikeling's connector. The kit included 500W motor (threaded in to a wheel), controller, cadence sensor, display, control pad, motor cutoff brake handles, and a thumb throttle.
Then I added ergo grips, threaded-to-threadless stem adapter, Redshift shock stem, riser bars, Kinekt isolation seatpost, Hobson easyseat, mirror, lights, rack, fenders.
It was really easy to put together. The hardest part, by far, was verifying - before purchase - that everything would fit. I'm in to it about $1,000 (partly because I had some pieces lying around).
The bike works pretty well. I can make it up any hill easily, and I can generally make it match my wife's speed when we are riding together. It can be configured as Class 1, 2, 3 or unrestricted. It has 9 levels of assist (I usually ride with it in the middle). The whole thing is only 42lbs, and it is easy to put on a bike rack. A typical 15-mile ride, with lots of hills, only takes about 1/3 of the battery.
I haven't had any problems, but if I do, it seems really easy to replace most of the parts.
There are, of course, downsides:
- the assist is fairly noisy, which I'm not used to
- the battery meter is voltage-based, and so goes up and down a lot depending on load. Not a real problem if you are used to it and going on a ride that will likely only use 1/3 of the battery; but I'd sure hate to take it on a ride that's twice as long
- the tires, while pretty tough, are pretty skinny and don't give a great ride
- the assist levels have speed cutoffs, so you can't use assist level 2 while cruising at 17mph
- the bike has a front caliper hand brake and rear coaster brake. Being used to hydraulic discs, I have been disappointed in the stopping power
Last edited:
