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Electric car charging prices 'must be fair' say MPs

pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,606
1,414
mid wales
What politicians say and what they do...
Make a promise with a future date - not your problem - be out of office by then...
HS2 will only cost £32.7billlion and we have a contingency fund if it goes over...
I'm sure they're all hoping for some wonderful techno magic that bypasses all the theoretical issues. If autonomous cars ever happen then why own one - just call a rental from the local pool?
At the mo' en route leccy is getting close to petrol costs and that's without a fuel duty...put in road pricing for everyone and an awful lot of folk won't be able to run cars 'cos you can be sure fossil cars have to pay the road pricing too and they won't drop the fuel duty.
Yeah, it'll reduce urban pollution but overall effect of global CO2 will be negligible unless the huge polluters join the game, emerging nations stop emerging (look at the massive rise in car ownership China... even if every car is zero emission use any type car costs a lot in emissions to build)
 

Blokie

2021 M3LR
Nov 7, 2020
212
110
UK
I've no idea why they don't mandate a charger on each newbuild.
That's entirely missing the point - your suggestion would only be applicable to properties with off road parking, and it's feasible for anybody with this option to get a charger installed, and also get a subsidy to cover part of the cost. The issue here (and has been discussed at length in this forum) is people/properties WITHOUT offroad parking capability - you can't provide a charger on a new build if there's on offroad parking!
 

pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,606
1,414
mid wales
One of my friends bought a new build and was excited to get a charger for his ID3. Although his house has dedicated parking, there is a shared footpath between his parking space and his house. Apparently installers don’t want to know about this “non-standard” installation… :confused:
That should be resolvable assuming no weird designs or odd ultility runs.... stick a high post on his driveway side and an overhead armoured cable, attach the charger to the post. I have 50A overhead supply to my barn where the car is kept. Use an ordinary electrician/builder to fit the first part.
 
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phil4

Member
Sep 8, 2020
375
220
UK
That's entirely missing the point - your suggestion would only be applicable to properties with off road parking, and it's feasible for anybody with this option to get a charger installed, and also get a subsidy to cover part of the cost. The issue here (and has been discussed at length in this forum) is people/properties WITHOUT offroad parking capability - you can't provide a charger on a new build if there's on offroad parking!

I'm not sure I miss the point entirely. I merely state it as something I think the government should do as pushed the takeup of EV's

Granted a small sample, but round here there's plenty of cars that park on the road... but they do so for their convenience, they have offroad parking, but because they're not right by their front door (but in garage blocks) they prefer to park on the road. I don't know if they're in the 30% that don't have off-road parking... I'd hope not.

I think the really interesting bit is that many people bandy about not being able to charge at home now, as the reason new ICE can't be banned in 8.5 years time. Which is daft.

Do we need a solution to the issue? Yes. First and foremost going back to my new build point, lets add that parking should be mandated, with charger for all new builds with n-1 spaces (# bedrooms minus 1).

So what about the rest? If we want the National grid to cope, we want almost everyone charging off peak, at home, so lets start lining the streets with bollards, use the lampposts, whatever? I saw something similar in Amsterdam.

Who pays for it? I don't see why the car owners don't chip in... I had to pay for my charger to be fitted, and no, no government grant (my choice), why not use that same method for roadside charging?
 
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phil4

Member
Sep 8, 2020
375
220
UK
Perhaps also worth working out what we mean by "fair".

Treating everyone exactly the same is the fairest way of being fair. So everyone pays the same price. We're almost there on that, we just need to stop "clubs" with discounted rates, since not everyone pays the same then.

And that's it done then.

The people with no offroad parking have the ability to park off road and charge if they live somewhere else. They have the same opportunities as everyone else to do that.

But then you don't really want an argument about being liberal, class systems etc. So lets park that.
 

Mrklaw

Member
Mar 5, 2020
614
343
Berkshire
If the government is installing and running/maintaining the infrastructure then it can set the prices. Otherwise they have to let market forces find the right balance point between cost price, maintainance price and demand. Petrol stations mostly float around the same price because distribution is mostly the same for everyone, tax is the same, and the price varies mainly on location and demand. I'd expect the same for EV charging...eventually. But early days things will be expensive.

I suppose to muddy the waters the Governmetn will say its funding core infrastructure upgrades with the grid/DNOs so will want some influence over things, but I don't see it making much difference.
 

GRiLLA

Active Member
Jul 5, 2020
1,116
1,171
UK
That's entirely missing the point - your suggestion would only be applicable to properties with off road parking, and it's feasible for anybody with this option to get a charger installed, and also get a subsidy to cover part of the cost. The issue here (and has been discussed at length in this forum) is people/properties WITHOUT offroad parking capability - you can't provide a charger on a new build if there's on offroad parking!
So, if this is about new builds I'm not sure I see your point. If a developer is building flats, why can't they put an option to charge in all the parking bays they are providing for the residents of those flats. If build a new estate without offstreet parking why not mandate they provide a kerbside charging option on the roads they are building. Developers have to provide a provision for their customers to park, so they can provide a charging option.
 

GRiLLA

Active Member
Jul 5, 2020
1,116
1,171
UK
First rule of remaining sane in the 21st century Internet: never, NEVER read the comment boxes in news publications. EVER.
But, but but there is a whole thread where people are suggesting the Nitrogen is a better option than electricity. Yes, Nitrogen. Great news as I've spotted an easy way to sell them 70% pure nitrogen in my recycled plastic bottles.
 

Nick77

Deep Blue Model 3 LR (2021 MIC)
Mar 15, 2020
580
273
Burton-on-Trent
The people with no offroad parking have the ability to park off road and charge if they live somewhere else. They have the same opportunities as everyone else to do that.
To me that's a bit like saying, if a town has no petrol stations you shouldn't actually build any for the local residents, they should just have to drive over to the next town to fill up. They have the same opportunities to move to somewhere that does have petrol stations if they don't like it.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
11,183
9,055
Maine
I’d argue that charging at home really isn’t as cheap as claimed. It’s not simply the kWh. Someone has to pay for the wall connector, the wiring, and any maintenance.
Please remember that this thread is UK based. Smart charging can save a ton of money.

But anyway my example as a Leftpondian, who has to settle for TOU:
12,000 miles per year, probably around 4miles/kWh, 3000kWh/year.

"Parking fee" at a "nearby" Chargepoint $0.15/min. Get 60kW at charge (max 62.5kW DCFC) ~ 1kWh/min.
$0.15/min ~ $0.15/kWh.

3000 kWh/year x $0.15/kWh = $450/year.
That's just the per-minute fee.
Energy is an additional $0.18/kWh. I'm paying a marginal rate of $0.114/kWh with off-peak charging.
3000kWh/year x $0.065/kWh = $195/year

Given the durability of EVSEs (my Clipper Creek LCS-25 was working fine for 7 years. I only replaced it because of getting a BEV and wanting 24A on my 30A circuit) and the even greater durability of the circuit, I'd suggest that home charging can very easily pay for itself.
 

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