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Electric Car Home Owner_Energy Cost Study

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Blackout, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. Blackout

    Blackout Member

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    Hello everyone,

    I am an Electrical Engineer currently working on a solution to help Home Owners reduce their energy expenses. In the province of Ontario, energy cost is relatively expensive compared to other provinces in Canada, and that motivated me to work towards Implementing an Idea and help people save even more money by driving Electric.

    This idea is currently in its infancy form and now I'm testing it on the market to see if it is feasible. For this, I was wondering if there are any people willing to help me with this study. Preferably Model S owners.

    For this Study I need:
    - At least 10 Model S drivers located in the Greater Toronto Area. (5 model S 70D drivers and 5 model S 90D drivers)
    - Model S owners that had their car during the period of Jan 1st 2016 to Dec 31st, 2016.
    - Access to the energy consumption and expenses records for the year of 2016
    - Drives on average about 20 000Km or more for the year 2016.

    The purpose of this study is to track the energy bills, how much it cost per month for energy while having an Electric car and mainly charging at home.
    I am looking for people who mainly charge their Model S at home and drive about 20 000Km for the year, I am not looking for people who mainly charge other stations (Such as workplace or Superchargers) in order to help save on energy expenses.

    My goal is to find out how much the energy expenses changes throughout the year and how much does the Energy consumption compare to the average homeowner in Ontario.
    I'm not here to debate that it is cheaper to own an EV, (I am well aware of the benefits of an Electric car and that why I am waiting for my model 3). My work is aimed towards finding solutions to make it even cheaper to own an electric car.
    This study would provide useful and real data, if you meet these criteria, please don't be shy and message me directly or reply to this post.
    I am very interested in finding out how much KwHr is consumed for the month and how the price changed throughout the year...

    PS: If there is anyone reading this with a background in Business development and passionate about Clean energy Technologies, Electric car and entrepreneurship, Please also message me privately.

    Hope to hear from you soon,

    Regards,
     
  2. mrElbe

    mrElbe Active Member

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    I have detailed records because I have an auxiliary meter installed in my charging circuit.
     
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  3. 3s-a-charm

    3s-a-charm Active Member

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    Reach out to John Dixon at the Tesla Owners Club of Ontario - he should be able to help you out with this. www.teslaownersclub.ca
     
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  4. iKhalid

    iKhalid Member

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    I just have a few comments about your points. Having lived in Ottawa and the GTA, I can tell you that the cost of electricity and electricity delivery are identical in the entire province. I'm not sure why you insist on having data from the GTA specifically.
    The cost to charge a Model S 60 or 70/75 or even 90 should be the same with a negligible difference because you also have the driving style factor, and it's rare to find someone who depletes his/her battery on a daily basis. I say this because you wanted to study 5 cars from each battery that was available back in 2016. In my opinion, the battery size shouldn't matter.
     
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  5. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    Purchasing a premium electric car (Tesla) to "save money" is unlikely to find a lot of great examples.

    While my family is "technically" saving money driving electric, we are saving compared to the vehicles we used to own, one of which was a premium brand SUV, so it's not like the owners of such vehicles are factoring in fuel costs, because bluntly, they aren't, there is no pure financial advantage to buying a premium brand vehicle, there is a status/comfort/performance/style advantage for sure, which we Tesla owners love, but saving money is way down the list.


    Why not talk to the excellent folks at Plug and Drive who have access to studies along these lines:
    Resource Library | Plug n Drive

    Again, I believe your premise to be flawed based on your initial paragraph, and I am NOT questioning your interest, motivation or expertise, I am ONLY providing guidance that this is a well researched area and the resources available are crystal clear and don't need additional studies.

    We drive 30,000 km per year all-electric across out two cars.
    We charge them almost exclusively over night at $0.13/kWh (all-in).
    We spend $900 on electricity to fuel them.
    Gas competition (Example is Ford Edge and Ford Focus) would use $3200 in fuel.

    Sure, there is a $2300 yearly "savings", but I've plowed far more money into winter tires than this amount of money, so I don't see the point of claiming it as the reason I bought the Tesla and Smart. No sir. I bought them because I freaking love both cars and HAD to have them. hated gas as otherwise, we'd take the bus and rent cars if all we needed was to "get from place to place".

    I took the bus for 10 years and I had a Camaro Z28 sitting in my garage, why?! because I couldn't stand to use gas for my simple commute, and I drove the balls off the Z28 every Friday-Sunday and then parked it during the week. Sure, I used gas, but I used it for "recreational" purposes ... boy ... that reminds me of other things I did back then, but anyway...
     
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  6. Blackout

    Blackout Member

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    From a business perspective, the GTA is my first customer segment, and I also live in the GTA so it will be easier for me to meet people if they are willing to meet me or save on long distance calls...
    At this point, I would rather not make any assumptions and allow the data to speak for itself...If the difference is negligible then it will show in the data that I'll be gathering...
     
  7. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    While not in Ontario it is easy for me. Since installing our 8kw solar on the roof the electric cost is $13.06. Month in and month out for the house and two plugin cars. We seem to be generating slightly more power than we use.
     
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  8. Blackout

    Blackout Member

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    #8 Blackout, Jun 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017

    Thank you for your advice, I'll reach out to Plug and Drive and see what I can get from them.

    Again I'm not here to argue going electric is cheaper than gas...(this is a no-brainer...), In my point of view until we reach full energy abundance more study will always be needed...

    Following your example assuming $900 a month is what you pay for your energy expenses, my goal is to reduce that by half with the help of technology and help people save and keep more money...
    If You pay $900 a month for electricity (For some people that's a mortgage), according to the data I've gathered so far it's about 5 times higher than the average Canadian living in Toronto to be exact and about 5.5 higher than what Canadian living in Ottawa are spending on energy expenses. I am using 2016 data.

    You have great point about targeting premium car owners. My solution is not for the immediate market, It will take time to develop. It's more forecasting the demand in 5 yrs from now when Lower cost electric vehicle will have the same battery size as an S70D or an S90D. People who can afford a 30K car and wish not to see a major increase in their monthly billing as they are living month to month paycheck...

    Thank you again for the information you provided. Would you be able to tell me about how much KwHr you consume on average per month? According to the numbers you provided (assuming $900/Month) are you consuming on average around 6000 - 7000 KwHr/month. That seems high, but could you please check?

    Regards,
     
  9. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    Please read my post again...I listed yearly costs and said so multiple times for clarity.
     
  10. 3s-a-charm

    3s-a-charm Active Member

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    Pretty sure he said $900 per year for electricity directed to the cars... not per month?
     
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  11. Blackout

    Blackout Member

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    Thank you for clarifying that, what I'm really after is how much you pay for electricity overall, not just for the car but also for your whole house. Comparing data with the average Canadian is crucial for my study. Providing me only with how much you pay to drive doesn't help me very much My solution is aim after reducing overall energy consumption (EV Included) to reduce energy cost.

    Would you say you noticed an increase in your energy bill by about 75$ a month after you had your car?
    Do you consume and average of 1500 KwHr/ month?
    Which Electric car do you drive? (Battery size?)
     
  12. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    I just clearly posted how much I use per year, $900. Monthly is a simple division by 12.

    My two EV's are listed in my signature....

    Our electricity use is under 15 kWh per day outside of the EV charging.
     
  13. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    Soon our electricity bill will be reduced further as we're putting in netmeter solar. :)
     
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  14. Blackout

    Blackout Member

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    If you can try to do it this year, You might be eligible to sign up for the MicroFIT program. It's more advantageous than net-metering and is only offer for a limited amount of time. Starting next year it will be only Net metering.

    I have good relationship with couple solar panels installers, If there is anything I can help you with let me know.
    Check out our company website for more info: www.RaZeusTech.ca

    Regards,
     
  15. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    Microfit wont work for me, roof is shaded. I'm going to DIY netmeter on my ravine lot (30 degree slope perfect for solar). I already have solar pool heating panels on the ravine, just going to add PV below existing array. I'm looking at 5 year payback. Just doing load displacement, not looking to make money pumping back to grid.
     
  16. Skotty

    Skotty 2014 Model S P85

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    It would be nice if there was an easy way to track exactly how much electricity the car charging is taking. Not sure what a good solution for that is.

    I would estimate we use roughly 500 to 600 kWh per month for car charging. But it bothers me that all I can do is estimate. Especially since I just started trying to do more thorough tracking as part of my pledge and commitment to the Paris climate agreement.

    Tesla probably has access to all the charge information. Maybe someday they will provide owners more access to charging logs.
     
  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    Sorry to also throw cold water, but this does not seem like a fertile field for the talents of an EE

    EPA is a good consumption estimate for 6 months of the year and 30% more for the other 6, so ~ 2.5 miles per kWh
    Know the residential kWh cost and the annual fuel costs for a Tesla, problem solved.
     
  18. Blackout

    Blackout Member

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    The concept of getting a return on your Solar investments is only possible if you either sell your house and include the cost of the panel with profit or Getting paid for the Energy you sell back to the grid.
    So MicroFIT and Netmetering are "Connected" the same way. The only difference between the netmetering and MicroFIT are the rate you sell the energy back to the grid.
    For the netmetering, depending on the time you'll be charge at the rate of High Peak, medium Peaks and Low Peak hours where as the MicroFIT you get a fixed rate higher than the rate that you would have at High Peak hours.
    I know people that made their return back within 3 years, they even register their Roof in HST, but it's because they got in the MicroFIT early and got very good rates. When it started it used to be 0.8$/KwHr where as during high peaks you get 0.183$/KwHR...
    Unfortunately the rates for the microFIT are not that high anymore but at 0.27$/KwHR Fixed rate for 20 years regardless of time during the day is still a good deal...
     

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