I still think it's generally easier to ask forgiveness rather than permission. This turned out to be an exception, of course.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Electric car owner charged with stealing 5 cents worth of juice
- Thread starter gvillager
- Start date
I still think it's generally easier to ask forgiveness rather than permission. This turned out to be an exception, of course.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Someone posted another link in one of the articles to a person arrested for charging their cell phone at a city park without permission. The judge threw out the case.
I think there's a large chance however that most people will overestimate the cost of electricity that a plug-in will draw (vs electronics).
I think there's a large chance however that most people will overestimate the cost of electricity that a plug-in will draw (vs electronics).
Not all airports do. This is more of a recent phenomenon.
- - - Updated - - -
Actually he spent 15 hours in jail:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/314666/40/Electric-car-owner-charged-with-stealing-5-cents-worth-of-juice
"Records show Kamooneh spent more than 15 hours in the DeKalb County Jail for plugging his car into a school's electrical outlet."
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
GlennAlanBerry
Member
The local TV station (Channel 11 in Atlanta) ran a story about this. http://www.11alive.com/rss/article/...-charged-with-stealing-5-cents-worth-of-juice
The poll on that page and the online comments are overwhelmingly in favor of the guy who was arrested.
I agree that you should ask before you plug in, but this was a ridiculous overreaction by the police.
The poll on that page and the online comments are overwhelmingly in favor of the guy who was arrested.
I agree that you should ask before you plug in, but this was a ridiculous overreaction by the police.
NigelM
Recovering Member
That might be valid in an emergency but the guy took his son to the school, how tough would it have been to ask permission?
Next round of office jokes: watch out for those EV drivers, they steal your electricity and then their cars catch fire!
Well there's a parallel thread on this... I posted my experience:
This is an interesting situation.
One hotel I patronized told me at the time of booking that "there is an oulet in the parking lot you may use." As a matter of fact he even coned it off ahead of time so the space would be available when I arrived.
When I arrived, I plugged in for the night. Before going to bed, I checked the car via the app to find out it had stopped charging. I went out to investigate to find the pug was dead. Informing the hotel, I was told that section of the parking lot and the pole was actually "common" to the business park, and that outlet was actually a city-maintained outlet, thus they didn't have the breaker for it.
Doing a little snooping around, it appears it was actually a circuit branch off a billboard pole at the far end of the parking lot that overlooked the adjacent roadway. When night fell and the billboard lights came on, the combined load along with my car was sufficient to trip the breaker. So my car stopped charging, AND the billboard went dark.
I was able to find another outlet to charge at, however the billboard remained out, as the hotel mgr didn't know who to notify.
So even when you DO ask, there are some interesting situations that can arise...
This is an interesting situation.
One hotel I patronized told me at the time of booking that "there is an oulet in the parking lot you may use." As a matter of fact he even coned it off ahead of time so the space would be available when I arrived.
When I arrived, I plugged in for the night. Before going to bed, I checked the car via the app to find out it had stopped charging. I went out to investigate to find the pug was dead. Informing the hotel, I was told that section of the parking lot and the pole was actually "common" to the business park, and that outlet was actually a city-maintained outlet, thus they didn't have the breaker for it.
Doing a little snooping around, it appears it was actually a circuit branch off a billboard pole at the far end of the parking lot that overlooked the adjacent roadway. When night fell and the billboard lights came on, the combined load along with my car was sufficient to trip the breaker. So my car stopped charging, AND the billboard went dark.
I was able to find another outlet to charge at, however the billboard remained out, as the hotel mgr didn't know who to notify.
So even when you DO ask, there are some interesting situations that can arise...
Clearly, the police are not familiar with the legal concept of de minimus. Arresting a person for a $0.05 "theft" (which, in this case, hasn't been determined to be a theft because the school's position isn't clear) is beyond insane.
By this quantity-doesn't-matter, "a theft is a theft," logic, every person in modern society is a criminal, including, I'm sure, Sergeant Ernesto Ford.
By this quantity-doesn't-matter, "a theft is a theft," logic, every person in modern society is a criminal, including, I'm sure, Sergeant Ernesto Ford.
True. Everyone who has ever used a drinking fountain without permission is guilty of stealing water.
GlennAlanBerry
Member
Nigel,
If you watch the news story, you will find out that this happened on a Saturday, and there was no one around from the school to ask for permission. Even if it was during working hours, and the guy walked in and asked, which school employee would have been authorized to give him permission? Which school employee would have stuck their neck out and said anything but no?
The school district did not file a complaint about this. This seems to be a case of a bored police officer, perhaps with some other motivations, making a big deal out of a very small incident. He could have simply asked the guy to unplug and I bet he would have complied. Instead, a decent amount of effort and money has been wasted over this.
I agree you should ask before you plugin, but this is pretty silly. I don't see some wider danger of EV drivers being cast as criminals because of this.
If you watch the news story, you will find out that this happened on a Saturday, and there was no one around from the school to ask for permission. Even if it was during working hours, and the guy walked in and asked, which school employee would have been authorized to give him permission? Which school employee would have stuck their neck out and said anything but no?
The school district did not file a complaint about this. This seems to be a case of a bored police officer, perhaps with some other motivations, making a big deal out of a very small incident. He could have simply asked the guy to unplug and I bet he would have complied. Instead, a decent amount of effort and money has been wasted over this.
I agree you should ask before you plugin, but this is pretty silly. I don't see some wider danger of EV drivers being cast as criminals because of this.
EV owner charged w/ stealing $0.05 worth of juice (video)
I had posted this news item to the evdl.org last night
Electric Vehicle Discussion List - EVLN: EV owner charged w/ stealing $0.05 worth of juice (video)
so as to keep it documented on the evdl.org nabble archive. I checked the URL of the newswire on this thread
It has been updated, so check back for their updates on this on-going story.
Also, I updated last night post (above URL) with several of the copy-cat newswires. Looks like, for better or worse, the plugin community is in the spot-light again (as if the fires weren't enough).
These copy-cat newswires seem to be equally divided from "those darn electrical-things!" to "An injustice over 5 cents!".
On that thread, I also posted my personal experience in a similar way. It only cost me $500 to get my EV back.
Bottom line: today there is plenty of public EVSE, use them, or "always get permission!" before plugging in.
{brucedp.150m.com}
I had posted this news item to the evdl.org last night
Electric Vehicle Discussion List - EVLN: EV owner charged w/ stealing $0.05 worth of juice (video)
so as to keep it documented on the evdl.org nabble archive. I checked the URL of the newswire on this thread
It has been updated, so check back for their updates on this on-going story.
Also, I updated last night post (above URL) with several of the copy-cat newswires. Looks like, for better or worse, the plugin community is in the spot-light again (as if the fires weren't enough).
These copy-cat newswires seem to be equally divided from "those darn electrical-things!" to "An injustice over 5 cents!".
On that thread, I also posted my personal experience in a similar way. It only cost me $500 to get my EV back.
Bottom line: today there is plenty of public EVSE, use them, or "always get permission!" before plugging in.
{brucedp.150m.com}
So think about this. For this "theft" of a nickel's worth of electricity, some fool called 911, engaging a county employee in conversation about the theft in progress. Said employee then dispatched two more government employees to "respond" to the scene, engage in conversation with the "complainant" and the "thief"... but wait, there is more... They decide to let him go. These officers then file a report, submit said report to the prosecutors office involving at minimum 2 more government employees, who then go to a judge to get a warrant, engaging 2 more employees (assuming the judge has a clerk) who then passes that warrant back to the police involving a supervisor and a dispatcher to send two officers to arrest this "thief" who then is transported to jail, engaging at least two more county workers at the jail...
Anyone keeping track of the cost of man hours? Still think this wasn't about the "blue state hippie in the electric car?" because having lived in that backwards state, I don't doubt it for a minute.
Anyone keeping track of the cost of man hours? Still think this wasn't about the "blue state hippie in the electric car?" because having lived in that backwards state, I don't doubt it for a minute.
Seven7
Member
Not sure whatever happened with the criminal case, but the city cops in Sarasota arrested a homeless guy for charging a cellphone at an outlet in a public park.
So think about this. For this "theft" of a nickel's worth of electricity, a county employee called 911, engaging another county employee in conversation about the theft in progress. Said employee then dispatched two more government employees to "respond" to the scene, engage in conversation with the "complainant" and the "thief"... but wait, there is more... They decide to let him go. These officers then file a report, submit said report to the prosecutors office involving at minimum 2 more government employees, who then go ti a judge to get a warrant, engaging 2 more employees (assuming the judge has a clerk) who then passes that warrant back to the police involving a supervisor and a dispatcher to send two officers to arrest this "thief" who then is transported to jail, engaging at least two more county workers at the jail...
Anyone keeping track of the cost of man hours? Still think this wasn't about the "blue state hippie in the electric car?" because having lived in that backwards state, I don't doubt it for a minute.
Anyone keeping track of the cost of man hours? Still think this wasn't about the "blue state hippie in the electric car?" because having lived in that backwards state, I don't doubt it for a minute.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
This was my same response on insideevs yesterday.
People plugging in without asking give all *EV owners a bad reputation. Don’t steal “fuel”. A large car does not look/seem the same to the public as a small cell phone being plugged in. They don’t use the same amount of electricity either. They are not in the same frame-of-mind to the public.
sven
I don’t just charger my cell phone anywhere. 99.9% at home. I’ve done it at hotel rooms, airports (many have phone charging stations), my car, etc. I wouldn’t pull into a parking garage, or upto someones house on the street, or a business and look for and outdoor plug for my cell phone.
Public perception people and *EV acceptability. Don’t steal your cars fuel.
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
What I don't understand is why they didn't just issue him a citation.
- - - Updated - - -
Your cell phone battery is at most 10 Wh. At $0.12/kWh your phone's full charge will cost $0.0012. Giving someone a penny for the charge is 8 times too much. Unless, of course, you're using Verizon Math...
- - - Updated - - -
Your cell phone battery is at most 10 Wh. At $0.12/kWh your phone's full charge will cost $0.0012. Giving someone a penny for the charge is 8 times too much. Unless, of course, you're using Verizon Math...
Some do. Many don't want you using the "hidden" outlets that are used by maintenance.
NigelM
Recovering Member
Nonsense. Public drinking fountains are put there for public use.
- - - Updated - - -
First, these days you can't get near unattended schools (there's always exceptions I guess) so maybe the police came because he was trespassing? The reports say that the police arrived shortly after he plugged in so I'm assuming that someone from the school called it in, ergo someone was present.
Second, there's no back story reported....maybe this guy has done that many times and repeatedly been asked not to? Maybe that's why the school called the police? Perhaps they just didn't want everyone else to start copying him. There's a reason retail stores prosecute minor shoplifting, it's to deter others from doing the same thing.
Overall I agree it appears to be a waste of time and money, but the complainant/police officer probably had no idea that it was really only a few cents worth of electricity.
Similar threads
