One of the two Joby flight test aircraft has crashed. Probably going to delay certification.
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Electric planes
- Thread starter doug
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- Electric Vehicles
When you compare the 95 percent efficiency of electric motors to the 50 percent efficiency of jet motors, they never need to.
Batteries would still have to reach half the energy density of jet fuel in order to compete. They are orders of magnitude away from that now. Using green, renewable energy to produce synthetic liquid fuels makes far more sense than putting heavy batteries in an airplane.
swaltner
Active Member
Big news today. Textron has has entered into an agreement to purchase Pipistrel due to their electric aircraft.
investor.textron.com
I’m hoping this will make it easier to get support and information on my Pipistrel Taurus Electro. The expertise on their electric system is currently just overseas. I have an A&P coming this weekend for my condition inspection. Looking forward to a fun year of soaring!
Textron to Acquire Electric Aircraft Pioneer Pipistrel
Textron Inc. (NYSE: TXT), home to the Cessna, Beechcraft, and Bell aviation brands, today announced it has entered into an agreement to purchase Pipistrel, an award-winning pioneer and global leader in electrically powered aircraft, based in Slovenia and Italy. This press release features...
I’m hoping this will make it easier to get support and information on my Pipistrel Taurus Electro. The expertise on their electric system is currently just overseas. I have an A&P coming this weekend for my condition inspection. Looking forward to a fun year of soaring!
MontyFloyd
Member
You know Pipi has all its manuals online?
I see nothing in manuals that requires expertise, and they are well written.
What your A&P say, do?
As for EV aircraft, get this little tidbit from Pipi:
"The Velis Electro has a 50 kg (110 lb) higher MTOW than the Alpha Electro."
"Consider that each of the two batteries weighs approximately 70 kg (154 lb) (or 140 kg / 308 lb total)"
"What is the flight endurance of the Velis Electro? The endurance was designed to cover for typical flight school utilisation for local flying (50 minutes plus reserve) and is a compromise between performance, environmental robustness (flying in hot, flying in cold, charging in hot, charging in cold) and battery system lifetime."
Pure EV aircraft will not replace fuel powered for decades.
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I think you underestimate future advances in battery power density and ultracapacitor technology, based on what has happened over the past few decades. Time will tell…
Brando
Active Member
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/JAGV2MS54BMNXCO5GQYGWHMMXU.jpg)
United Airlines to buy 100, 19-seat electric planes from Heart Aerospace
United Airlines (UAL.O) said on Tuesday it would buy 100 19-seat ES-19 electric planes from Swedish start-up Heart Aerospace, as the U.S. carrier eyes battery-powered aircraft for regional routes.
www.reuters.com
Brando
Active Member
‘This is real’: Electric aircraft maker Eviation set to fly battery-powered plane this year
Seattle-area electric aircraft builder Eviation revealed Thursday that it has begun assembling the first production of Alice, its nine-passenger, battery-powered aircraft. The company is on track to fly the plane… Read More
www.geekwire.com
MontyFloyd
Member
5. Company goes bankrupt.
That design is, well, comic book fiction.
Well, I need more details. To make this even get close will require cutting edge, not yet invented tech and 8 digit budget to get there.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Batteries maybe but I've seen nothing on the ultracap front to suggest they are even close to today's batteries let alone have a chance at leapfrogging them.
MontyFloyd
Member
Bet you a MY a pure EV aircraft will not replace an equivalent Jet A medium passenger aircraft (eg 737 or A320) for at least 3 decades, likely never.
I won’t be around in three decades so not taking that bet
.
SalisburySam
Active Member
Consider it estate planning?I won’t be around in three decades so not taking that bet
MontyFloyd
Member
SO, a challenge in aircraft is to store the energy AND perform inspections and maintenance.
The problem of putting batteries in wings will make it impossible to do inspection and maintenance to wing.
With fuel loaded wings "wet wings", the fuel is drained and people can actually crawl inside to do inspections and maintenance.
Then it occurred to me:
REMOVABLE AND DISPOSABLE WINGS!
Not entire wing, just the outer 2/3, just past the engines.
Yes, it is expensive, but with life limited batteries, and even typical airliner wings are life limited (fatigue, damage, etc).
The problem of putting batteries in wings will make it impossible to do inspection and maintenance to wing.
With fuel loaded wings "wet wings", the fuel is drained and people can actually crawl inside to do inspections and maintenance.
Then it occurred to me:
REMOVABLE AND DISPOSABLE WINGS!
Not entire wing, just the outer 2/3, just past the engines.
Yes, it is expensive, but with life limited batteries, and even typical airliner wings are life limited (fatigue, damage, etc).
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Won't be a problem for Elon - Elon will jump to a blended wing supersonic design. He will probably manage to make it look SR-71 ish as well.
petit_bateau
Active Member
Circa 2007, plus or minus, EEStor was promising commercially-available ultracapacitors in six months. They had just announced that they had succeeded in purifying the material they intended to use as the dielectric. I called BS, on the grounds that they hadn't yet demonstrated a prototype capacitor, much less performed safety tests on said nonexistent prototype or built a factory to mass manufacture the as-yet undeveloped capacitors. Eventually they went bankrupt, taking the excellent ZENN EV company with them, having scammed ZENN into investing all its cash into them.
At the time, I pointed out that one very big safety concern with ultracapacitors is that a breach in the dielectric will result in an explosive release of energy. The energy release of gasoline is limited by available oxygen, and batteries have an inherent limit on how fast they can release their energy. But when a capacitor is breached, all the energy is released in about a microsecond.
Ultracapacitors are decades away from commercial use, and might never be safe enough for airplanes.
Meanwhile, as I've said many times, synthetic liquid fuels could be made from renewable energy, once we have enough of it, and they would be functionally identical to existing liquid fuels, but carbon-neutral, since their carbon would come from the atmosphere. Batteries will not be weight-competitive with fossil (or synthetic) fuels during the lifetime of anybody reading this. For the hobbyist, for whom a small short-range airplane is entirely adequate, there are options now. But large, long-distance, heavy-lift aircraft will have to use liquid fuels, either fossil or synthetic, probably forever.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I seem to remember there is a guy needing a lot of storage for building cars. He did graduate work on Ultra Caps. He is using batteries for his cars.
I would think if Ultra Caps had an advantage, the guy that knew them reasonably well (and likely still does) would be using them.
I think Daniel above has nailed this thing perfectly. Go put some grab carbon out of the air solar powered syn fuel plants in the middle of the desert and make a carbon neutral option. Not available now and likely not cheap but most certainly doable.
I do remember sticking electrolytics in wall sockets as a kid. They do put on quite the show when they blow.
I would think if Ultra Caps had an advantage, the guy that knew them reasonably well (and likely still does) would be using them.
I think Daniel above has nailed this thing perfectly. Go put some grab carbon out of the air solar powered syn fuel plants in the middle of the desert and make a carbon neutral option. Not available now and likely not cheap but most certainly doable.
I do remember sticking electrolytics in wall sockets as a kid. They do put on quite the show when they blow.
I agree that would make sense if there ever is a large surplus of solar capacity. But that is likely many decades away, unfortunately.
The main problem with batteries is, landing weight is the same as take-off weight.
Which means EV planes should weigh close to the weight of an ICE plane with empty tanks. I am not even sure today we are anywhere close to that in terms of gravimetric density for even the highest energy density LiOn battery with Co & Ni.
Which means EV planes should weigh close to the weight of an ICE plane with empty tanks. I am not even sure today we are anywhere close to that in terms of gravimetric density for even the highest energy density LiOn battery with Co & Ni.
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