Exactly - there are many locations on earth where short range regional air routes are required due to Water.
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Electric planes
- Thread starter doug
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Except that’s not the use case. Generally people don’t choose to fly when the point to point driving distance is tenable, they’re connecting through a hub. As is the case with many hub and spoke airlines, there are enough people who find great convenience in anchoring at small/local airports rather than driving to the just-too-far away hub and then fighting traffic/security when they get there.
This will be great for AC’s short connections around their hubs as well as their backcountry puddle jump and actual over water puddle jumps, some served in in zero emissions mode as well of course in hybrid mode.
Example: AC flies like 8 or 9 dailies between Vancouver and Victoria.
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Yeah this is incredibly niche. But maybe they are on to something with the hybrid concept for an aircraft? I wouldn't be surprised if those two "generators" were PT6 turbofans in the two inner most nacelles. Kinda like the orignal Chevy Volt where the "generator" ICE actually was connected to the drive wheels.
Plus, you ain't ferrying this thing to Maui on batteries.
Also a great point - in fact I guess what you say is probably the majority of short routes, with puddle jumps being the smaller share.
So a very fertile market for short range EV airliners to be the entry point for this technology, and slowly expand to larger aircraft as technology matures.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Hopefully with time further refinements and increased production volume would bring the cost down. They say a smaller version will be coming to the US.
I look forward to seeing whether those short-hop electric planes can really compete with turbo-prop planes. For a plane of the same size, the weight of the batteries will displace some number of passengers and some weight of cargo.
...but 400km if they only contain 25 people, or if they use the add-on generator engine, or 800km if they do both. There are plenty of flights from Quebec City to Montreal which is a bigger international hub, for connecting flights. That's a ~250km flight. I'm sure there are many other such use cases. Even if they fire the generators for a bit, it'll still be way less fuel burned. I think there's a good use case for these, although they cannot replace all flights.
So instead of three-quarters of a million dollars it might only cost half a million?
Then of course there are the legal and safety issues: Will they be allowed to fly over residential areas? What about air traffic control? Collision with hobbyist drones? Will they require a pilot's license to fly? How about "Jackass"-style pilots crashing into buildings and power poles? Of course the price tag will prevent much of that. But there could be rental businesses. Plenty of "Jackasses" could afford to spend $100 or even $500 to fly one for an hour.
I'm thinking very few jurisdictions will allow them.
But it is cool!
Yeah, that was kind of my point: You'd need to have a spare three-quarters of a million dollars, and get a pilot's license, and probably would be prohibited from flying it over cities where it could actually be useful. It will be a toy (albeit a really fun one!) that you'd be able to fly over unpopulated areas.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Eviation's all-electric Alice aircraft makes its maiden flight | TechCrunch
A prototype of the Alice electric aircraft from Eviation has made its first flight in central Washington, with more tests to come.
techcrunch.com
Nine passengers plus their luggage. Very cool, but not going to be a significant player in the greater commercial passenger airline market.
I was amused by:
Considering how slowing robotaxi development is going, it sounds like somebody isn't too optimistic about this plane.
I was amused by:
Considering how slowing robotaxi development is going, it sounds like somebody isn't too optimistic about this plane.
MontyFloyd
Member
100% certified BULLshat.
Air Canada buys 30 hybrid-electric airplanes, targets 2028 launch
Canada's largest airline is snapping up 30 hybrid-electric ES-30 airplanes made by Heart Aerospace of Swedenelectricautonomy.ca
Lucky to get a flying prototype in 3 years, let alone a certified aircraft in 5.
The hype is off scale too.
The GOOD things:
It will have benefits, there is a clear advantage with a hybrid system.
For example a turbine used for takeoff and landing (as backup), while cruise is on battery.
The difficult part is Cabin Air/ creature comfort, that takes up quite a bit of energy (not as much as flying, but enough)
Watch Eviation’s all-electric Alice aircraft first flight
Eviation Alice, an all-electric aircraft that appears to be closest to being commercially viable, had its first flight – it was successful.
electrek.co
Etna
Member
In a hybrid system it is the other way around. Turbines are best used for energy intensive parts of the flight while batteries are used for power intensive parts. So you use batteries for takeoff and climb, and smaller turbines to extend range in cruise.
A pressurized electric aircraft requires up to 5% of battery energy for the Environmental Control System, not negligible but not a difficult issue either.
Etna
Member
I think this first flight is a great achievement for all those involved.Eviation's all-electric Alice aircraft makes its maiden flight | TechCrunch
A prototype of the Alice electric aircraft from Eviation has made its first flight in central Washington, with more tests to come.
Nonetheless, the design is still fatally flawed since they completely miscalculated realistic empty weight and battery weight fractions required to maximize range as much as possible, considering the limitations of pure battery powered propulsion.
Note that this week Eviation quietly updated their web site with a takeoff weight increasing from 16500 to 18400 lb and range slashed from 440 nm to 250 nm. That gets them closer to reality but still not quite there yet. Notably, the 30 minutes VFR reserves is of no use in a commercial environment.
They acknowledge this since their new CEO said this week that "the aircraft will enter into service when battery technology evolution will get us the energy densities to make a product that is commercially viable".
This could be a long wait.
I totally discount any ideas that depend on 'better batteries'. While battery technology has improved by about 10% per year up until now, that has not been a smooth curve. There tend to be unpredicable jumps based on certain breakthrough technologies.
Historically, the GM Impact and T-zero both proved basic viability based on PbA (lead acid) batteries so I started to believe EVs could be viable commuters and sports cars (respectively). Better batteries just made them better and easier to sell to the mainstream population.
In addition electric take-off and landing means a quieter aircraft, potentially extending hours of operation so there's a commercial motivation to do it that way.
The pressurization could also be done with a separate system and different battery technologies. Whatever proves easier.
Yep. Batteries will continue to improve, and our electric cars will lose a little weight or gain a little range from year to year. But the tipping point to commercially viable electric planes is a very long way off and may never happen. And a nine-passenger plane is too small for any but the tiniest markets. The float planes I took to and from San Juan Island, and to and from Katmai, AK, were around that size, but the single-engine planes I took to and from safari lodges in Kenya were a bit bigger, IIRC. Teeny tiny markets.
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