Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Electric Requirements

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
My advice is NOT to depend on using the maximum length of your wall connector cable. It's a pain in the butt to constantly coil and uncoil a long cable. Spend the money now to put the wall connector in the most convenient location. When I did my last one, another 10ft of distance was an extra $50 as I recall. This was for #6 THHN in hard conduit mounted on the wall.

Do you intend to park outside permanently? I ask because running the cable under the door exposes it to damage from the door pinching the cable, and has the potential to create gaps that could let rodents into your garage. Better to mount the wall connector outside if you're going to be using it there.

I agree with this... mount it where you will be using it. Don't try and save a couple bucks on a thousand+ dollar install and be forced to live with an inconvenient solution forever.

Also, get the 60 amp breaker, not the 50 amp. He is probably suggesting 50 amps because the cable required for that is cheaper than for 60 amp service. But if you're going for the install (and you're already most of the way there anyhow with a 100amp sub panel) you might as well do it right. This is a permanant install and over time, charging speeds/requirements/capabilities will only go up, not down. You already have service to the sub panel, the marginal cost to go from 50 to 60 amps is probably less than $1/ft at the end of the day, probably $50 at most depending on the size of your garage. Again, no sense in trying to save a few bucks on a $1k+ install just to live with an inconvenient solution, forever.

And it's good advice NOT to count on using your entire cable length. It's not like plugging in a hair dryer which has a thin bendable cord. The cable is thick (not as thick as a supercharger cable, but closer to that than a regular wall plug cable), annoying to coil/uncoil, does not bend easily, and you want to ensure you don't damage it over time. Get the longer cable but plan as if you only have half or 3/4 of the length.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: fiehlsport
All you need is dual 60 amp breakers for you wall charger that will allow you to charge at the maximum 48 amps
Or, alternatively, you can use a lower amp breaker, if you're concerned with overload, and charge slower. Most sane people charge at night while they are asleep, and the cars can slowly sip electrons for eight to ten hours. Usually, we're talking about simply topping up, not doing a full recharge, but even then, an overnight charge shouldn't put a strain on the system. In other words, THERE IS NO NEED TO CHARGE AT 48 AMPS. NONE. I have a 30-amp breaker and a 50-amp breaker for my cars and have never needed more. My cars sit unused for roughly ten to twelve hours at a time, so just TEN amps would give a complete fill up. The only places that charge at full speed are superchargers, where you're concerned with getting back on the road as quickly as possible.

I say this specifically for the newbie who reads this silliness and thinks they must have some max amount of charge available. You do not. If you drive only a few miles a day, even charging at a 110-volt outlet used overnight may satisfy your needs. A 110-volt outlet will give you 2 kwh an hour, or 20 kwh a night, enough to drive about 80 miles the next day, which might be enough for a lot of people.
 
It’s not too late, nothing has been done. Can you clarify what you’re recommending? Thanks
Sure. When you're planning your wire run and you are sizing your breaker box, if there's an opportunity to maximize the power to the HPWC now, that will ensure there's plenty of power available for the next HPWC install when your second tesla shows up. In my case I did go with a 100amp breaker for our 2018 can charge at 72 amps. This allowed us to have enough power to add in a second HPWC for the Model Y and let the chargers figure out the load. . So, if you find yourself in a few years installing a second HPWC, you want to plan now to feed them with as much amperage available through your box today with the right size wire.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dagug
Or, alternatively, you can use a lower amp breaker, if you're concerned with overload, and charge slower. Most sane people charge at night while they are asleep, and the cars can slowly sip electrons for eight to ten hours. Usually, we're talking about simply topping up, not doing a full recharge, but even then, an overnight charge shouldn't put a strain on the system. In other words, THERE IS NO NEED TO CHARGE AT 48 AMPS. NONE. I have a 30-amp breaker and a 50-amp breaker for my cars and have never needed more. My cars sit unused for roughly ten to twelve hours at a time, so just TEN amps would give a complete fill up. The only places that charge at full speed are superchargers, where you're concerned with getting back on the road as quickly as possible.

I say this specifically for the newbie who reads this silliness and thinks they must have some max amount of charge available. You do not. If you drive only a few miles a day, even charging at a 110-volt outlet used overnight may satisfy your needs. A 110-volt outlet will give you 2 kwh an hour, or 20 kwh a night, enough to drive about 80 miles the next day, which might be enough for a lot of people.
I don't see how installing infrastructure to support the maximum allowable charge rate provided by the hardware is "silliness". In fact, I believe the opposite... bottlenecking yourself just to save a couple bucks is true silliness. Especially in the OP's situation where they already have 100 amp service to a sub panel near the install area and simply need to run maybe 10 or 20 ft of cable... The difference is literally only going to be tens of dollars... And even for our install where I had to run an entirely fresh line and new sub panel from the basement of one side of the house, across 2000 sqft to the other side, then up 1.5 floors (due to walkout basement situation), the difference between 50 amp and 60 amp was only around $500.

And maybe in your situation you have no need for charging at 48 amps but sorry to say not everyone is in your exact situation, whatever that may be. For example, we have had MANY instances in the last few months where the 48 amps has saved our bacon. There are times when we forget to charge at night. My wife and my work schedule is such that we often need to make medium length trips (140 miles round trip) on short notice. Yes we can stop at a supercharger but that involves driving another 15-20 minutes one-way in the wrong direction (no nearby destination charger available) but that takes time out of what always ends up a long day anyways and would much rather spend that extra time with the kids. Rather than having to take the gas SUV, we can simply plug in for an hour or two and have enough to squeeze out the commute. Our electric company does not discern between peak and non-peak hours so there is no cost difference for us to charge at night vs in the daytime. We tend to just charge the car a couple hours before we need to go somewhere. When you've got very limited time to charge and a long trip ahead, every AMP of power you can deliver helps. There have been a few times where we have arrived back home with less than 5% charge. 50 amp service would have stranded us, 60 amps did not.

If your concern are newbies coming to the forum looking for advice, I would think having advice based on actual figures and cost comparison is much more helpful than advice based on someone else's own personal situation... Unless you outright sell your Tesla and never buy another EV - it's highly unlikely your power needs will go down. It is ridiculous to assume that whatever power needs you have now is all you will ever need later.

If the concern is overload, you can manually set the charger to run at a lower amperage. Now you have the ability to charge at full speed when needed as a one-off by simply adjusting a slider, but you have the peace of mind you'll never overload under normal (amp-restricted) circumstances. When it comes to high cost permanent installations, if the budget can afford it, it is almost ALWAYS better to install higher capacity infrastructure and hardware than you currently need to account for future expansion needs.

There is absolutely no silliness to thinking about the future and being prepared for any potential outcome or use case when considering a permanent installation. And especially when the marginal difference in cost is so minimal.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rocky_H
The rate of charge has nothing to do with the available power, performance or range of the Tesla Model Y (or any electric vehicle.) You could charge the battery at a trickle charge rate of 120V and 5 amps or at the maximum Level 2 rate of 240V and 48 amps or use a Supercharger and the Tesla vehicle, once charged, will perform identically. The only differences are time needed to charge, efficiency when charging, cost to charge and convenience to charge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jgassor
Yes, I when I refer to the max allowable charge by the hardware, I mean it as in the maximum charging rate supplied by the wall charger (not the maximum capacity of car). I've edited my post to clarify. When I mention future needs, I mean the capacity for future vehicles (and charging hardware for that matter) to charge (and deliver charge) at a faster rate. It's just like with a phone... 10 years ago, "fast charging" was a fraction of the speed where current flagship phones can fast charge. But you need both the device and the wall charger to be able to fast-charge in order to take advantage. If you used a wall charger from 10 years ago, you're not going to get "fast-charge" speeds, no matter how new your phone is. Same thing will happen to EVs... home charging speeds will more than likely increase, not decrease. So why not prepare for that eventuality? In fact, going to the full 60 amp service is simply taking advantage of existing speeds, not some unknown future possibility (like FSD lol).

On that note though, it is also likely that maximum battery capacity of cars will increase over time. All else held equal, that means it will take longer to fully charge your battery. Unless, you're able to deliver more power faster. If you said 48 amps is all I'll ever need.... that simply means you'll always have to take longer to fully charge your new higher capacity car in the future, like it or not.
 
Last edited:
Make sure they do a 60A breaker with #6 THHN wire in conduit (metal or PVC is fine) - a 50A circuit will limit your wall connector to 40 amps versus the 48A it is capable of. Minor, but best to max it out now while you can.

Also, note that a neutral wire is not necessary, so that should save you some cash. Two hot wires and a ground, can be #6, #6, and downsized to #8 for the ground.
Latest I heard, if you want to be code, ground must not be downsized.
 
charging speeds/requirements/capabilities will only go up, not down.
Same thing will happen to EVs... home charging speeds will more than likely increase, not decrease.
On that note though, it is also likely that maximum battery capacity of cars will increase over time. All else held equal, that means it will take longer to fully charge your battery.
You keep saying this, but the trend of the data shows the opposite is true and on multiple factors.
What was the highest charging amps for Tesla cars through the years?
2012 through the first few years, it was 80A.
Then, with the X in 2015 and S redesign to match, it was down to 72A.
Then with the 3 in 2018 and later the other cars redesign to match, it was down even further, to 48A.

That's not a trend going upward.

And you keep saying the time it takes to fully charge your battery. As cars go from 200 miles to 300 miles to 400+ miles of capacity, why does your workplace magically become 200, 300, or 400 miles farther from your house? It doesn't. You don't fully fill your battery from 0% to 100% every night. You drive however much you drive each day, and increasing range of the cars doesn't change that. As a matter of fact, more capacity in the car means you have more range leftover every day, meaning less need for faster charging.

And speaking of ever increasing capabilities of the cars, they improve in efficiency. So with the miles driven staying fairly constant, it is using up less energy for that distance as technology progresses, so it needs less energy refilled and slower charging speeds will be fine.

So on a per car basis, no, we will not need ever increasing recharging power, so I would not go with that reasoning. However, the proliferation of more EVs into the market does likely mean more households switching more vehicles over. So preparing to split charging onto a 2nd or 3rd EV would be a good justification for that. Switching vehicle type, from a sedan to a big inefficient EV truck would be another reason.
 
Doubtful that we will ever have DC fast charging at home unless you are talking about a multi-unit parking garage. The typical driver in the US, especially since COVID restrictions on social gatherings and working from home, drives 30 miles per day. That is unlikely to change. There are those who commute 70 or even more than 100 miles per day but these are edge cases.

What is likely to become common is wireless home charging and wireless public level 2 charging for many brands, models of EVs. The convenience of wireless charging will hasten broader EV acceptance. Pulling into a parking space and tapping the screen accepting the rate to charge while parked at a public space or whenever parked at home will become commonplace. There will be no need to handle a charging cord.
 
You do bring up some good points but let me clarify the points I'm trying to make:

You keep saying this, but the trend of the data shows the opposite is true and on multiple factors.
What was the highest charging amps for Tesla cars through the years?
2012 through the first few years, it was 80A.
Then, with the X in 2015 and S redesign to match, it was down to 72A.
Then with the 3 in 2018 and later the other cars redesign to match, it was down even further, to 48A.

That's not a trend going upward.
I'm almost certain that home charging with a wall charger was never at 80A... Perhaps what you are referring to is the car's max ability/rate of power "ingestion" (for the lack of a better term). Or perhaps I'm wrong - I don't have the data in front of me. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding here.

In any case, my point in bringing this bit up was simply that we don't know what the future holds. If it only costs a few dollars, why not future proof as much as possible?

And you keep saying the time it takes to fully charge your battery. As cars go from 200 miles to 300 miles to 400+ miles of capacity, why does your workplace magically become 200, 300, or 400 miles farther from your house? It doesn't. You don't fully fill your battery from 0% to 100% every night. You drive however much you drive each day, and increasing range of the cars doesn't change that. As a matter of fact, more capacity in the car means you have more range leftover every day, meaning less need for faster charging.
You're missing my point here - I'm not suggesting everyone charges from 0-100% every night, nor am I suggesting distance needs will increase over time. Regardless of the capacity of the vehicle, for any given trip, there is a minimum amount of charge required to get you from A to B. If you are below that minimum you will need to charge. The faster your charge, the quicker you can reach that minimum. There are plenty of real-world cases where you need to reach that minimum on short notice, so having the ability to charge faster can only help.

Saying that the car has more capacity means you have more leftover range every day is in and of itself true - I won't argue against that. But if you regularly need to use more than 50% of a car's max capacity in a single day, then it is not a viable solution to the problem on its own. Yes it will help as you need to charge less the next day, but in this case, you will always need to charge the next day regardless. Yes, it lessens the need for faster charging, but does not eliminate it. Having the ability to charge faster only helps - why restrict yourself when it is likely to cost you a small % of the total install cost to ensure your permanently installed infrastructure is not the bottleneck.

And speaking of ever increasing capabilities of the cars, they improve in efficiency. So with the miles driven staying fairly constant, it is using up less energy for that distance as technology progresses, so it needs less energy refilled and slower charging speeds will be fine.

This is a good point, but you're speaking in terms of hypotheticals. In the same vein, who's to say a person does not switch jobs to a further location? Who's to say a person's life situation doesn't change and suddenly requires more constant, further trips?
And then to what degree will efficiency improve? If efficiency doubles in the next year, then yeah maybe you're right, no need, slower charging speeds will be fine. But let's go to the other extreme and say there's a 1% increase in efficiency in 10 years. Well, for an extra one-time fee of $50 you are giving yourself the option of having 20% faster charging speed over that 10 years you're waiting for efficiency to maybe improve. Don't hold me to the 20% figure. that's just a number I'm half pulling out of my arse. 60 amps vs 50 amps - the point is not the actual % but just illustrating that there is a perceivable immediate benefit. Just two extreme examples. Reality will fall somewhere in the middle. But the point of this was simply, yes, things will become more efficient and so all else held equal, fast charging will matter less. However it does not change the fact that there will always be a scenario where you need to reach a minimum level of charge in a minimum amount of time. Having the capacity for faster charging will never be a disadvantage when compared to not having it. The only trade-off is upfront cost. And in OP's situation, I can't imagine there is any scenario where the extra $50 will be an issue on a $1000 permanent install.

So on a per car basis, no, we will not need ever increasing recharging power, so I would not go with that reasoning. However, the proliferation of more EVs into the market does likely mean more households switching more vehicles over. So preparing to split charging onto a 2nd or 3rd EV would be a good justification for that. Switching vehicle type, from a sedan to a big inefficient EV truck would be another reason.
I absolutely agree with your last point here. Being ready for split charging for another vehicle is going to become a more likely scenario as we move into the near future. Whether you plan to buy another EV or not, pretty much all car companies are shifting a large portion of their strategies towards EVs. And at least one major manufacturer has committed to ONLY producing EVs in the near future.

Again, all of this is to simply illustrate that it is not foolish to prepare for future eventualities if the marginal cost to do so is extremely low. Even if battery capacity goes up, charging efficiency goes up, and charging throughput goes down, it will not completely eliminate the need for fast charging in certain circumstances. It might reduce it but not eliminate. So why condemn yourself now if/when those eventualities do crop up, when it would likely cost you a tiny % of total install costs to future proof to the current maximum?

As a bit of an admittedly facetious metaphor: I don't usually use my pinky toe, but if you threatened to chop it off unless I gave you $50, you'd be all the richer. I wouldn't go and chop it off just cause i don't need it. One day I might. So I'd rather have it. I like having my foot at max toe capacity, even if I don't use all the digits. (Don't analyze this, just trying to inject some humor here). :p
 
Doubtful that we will ever have DC fast charging at home unless you are talking about a multi-unit parking garage. The typical driver in the US, especially since COVID restrictions on social gatherings and working from home, drives 30 miles per day. That is unlikely to change. There are those who commute 70 or even more than 100 miles per day but these are edge cases.

What is likely to become common is wireless home charging and wireless public level 2 charging for many brands, models of EVs. The convenience of wireless charging will hasten broader EV acceptance. Pulling into a parking space and tapping the screen accepting the rate to charge while parked at a public space or whenever parked at home will become commonplace. There will be no need to handle a charging cord.
What! You mean all of what I’m doing is a waste!! :oops: Just kidding.
 
It comes down to how much you drive per day and how often. I'm getting by fine on a 6-20 circuit in the garage and it required no more than a breaker in the box and installation of the outlet which I did my self and was inspected. A 240/20 amp will get you back ~ 135 miles of range in 9 hours. Everyone's got to sleep. If I went with larger circuit, it would require trenching outside and/or tearing up my basement ceiling to get wires to the garage, not something I would do myself. People will say you need 50 or 60 AMPs but I have NEVER had a situation at home were I needed more. Plugin in the evening and ready to go in the morning. There are two SC within 20 miles if ever did run low (have not used them). Not suggesting that you don't hire to get 60 AMP, but look at options and costs. All the electricians I called except one, tried to over sell me. Unless you drive over 100 miles per day, you can get by on small 15/20 amp 240 and probably avoid some costs, especially if getting there required upgrading your service from 100AMP to larger.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dagug
48A has been crucial in my experience after road trips, and needing to use the car later in the night. i.e. Come home from a business trip @ 15%... but need to take the kid out to grandpa's house later. I have to ensure I can charge as fast as possible at home so I can use the car however I need after running the battery down. A supercharger wouldn't be possible or useful in my case either, since it's way out of the way.

We've also had situations where the 30A max rate of our Ioniq has been an issue if my wife forgets to plug the car in the night before, and remembered in the morning before going out of town with only a few hours to spare. Higher AC charging speed would be great.

It just depends on what you use your car for. Mine is like a taxi half the time. Electricians are always going to try to sell a 50 or 60 amp charging setup because that is the industry norm for EVSEs, I doubt they're "overselling" for the sake of profit. And when a car comes with an included EVSE (Nissan Leaf, Tesla back in the day...) it sometimes came with a 14-50 on the end.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Darmie and sparty96
Again, all of this is to simply illustrate that it is not foolish to prepare for future eventualities if the marginal cost to do so is extremely low. Even if battery capacity goes up, charging efficiency goes up, and charging throughput goes down, it will not completely eliminate the need for fast charging in certain circumstances. It might reduce it but not eliminate. So why condemn yourself now if/when those eventualities do crop up, when it would likely cost you a tiny % of total install costs to future proof to the current maximum?
I think you were mischaracterizing what I said to disagree with it, or mixing me up with the other guy, who is our resident naysayer, who criticizes anything others do that isn't what his particular situation is. And he always gets several dislikes for that.

My statements weren't that it's foolish to do or that people shouldn't. But the way you were expressing it was as if the NEED for charging is always going to be ever increasing, and that it's going to be necessary to overbuild. That's what I disagreed with. It might be useful for some people or might not. As you say in this paragraph, though, I agree with it, that if it's fairly cost effective to add some margin, sure, it's a good idea.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dagug
My apologies - I did in fact mix up some of your comments with that of the other guy. I still believe that in time, car efficiency will increase, battery capacity will increase and charging throughput will increase alongside all of it. It's my belief that more consumers who opt for lower capacity charging now will come to regret it in the future versus those who opt to overbuild now will not regret they did so, later down the line. We can agree to disagree on this point! In any case, this opinion is strongly expressed and loosely held as is not based on any real data other than heuristic analysis of how phone batteries/charging has developed and the overall power needs of electronics in general over the past decade or so.

Like others have said, I think it really comes down to personal usage patterns. I can absolutely see why for many people a mobile charger is plenty at this time. But if someone has already decided that they need 50 amps, then I don't see much of a reason not to just go for the full 60 amps, especially if every other piece of previously installed hardware in the circuit is capable of handling it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fiehlsport
Spend the money now to put the wall connector in the most convenient location.

There is absolutely no silliness to thinking about the future and being prepared for any potential outcome or use case when considering a permanent installation.
Absolutely put the EVSE where its most convenient. You'll probably be charging once a week and a poorly place EVSE is a pain to work with.
Since running wires from your electric panel to the EVSE is messy (holes in sheetrock, spackle, paint) and expensive, you are better off running over sized wires in case you do get another EV in the future. While load sharing between EVSE's is fine, the fact is that sometimes you might not get a full over night charge when load sharing on a circuit designed for one EV.
If you run 6 gauge THHN, that's good to 75 amps (derated to 60 amps for the continuous charge for EVs) which is a modest EV charging circuit. Sure, you can get away with less but if you only want to run wires once, I would say 6 gauge THHN is the minimum I would run.
 
If anyone wants a helpful reference, this ampacity chart helps a lot when making wiring decisions.


Take 80% of whatever is listed to know what your max EV charging rate can be on a given conductor.
 
  • Helpful
  • Like
Reactions: Darmie and Rocky_H