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Electric Vehicle Charging at the Grand Canyon National Park - Discrimination Continues!

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But you can overfly it all day as long as you take off and land from outside the park.

If what you say is true, it would be quite difficult for the average enthusiast. Consider how far out the boundaries of the parks extend. Even if you can, you would require a very hefty battery pack, transmitter, and FPV. I know the laws flip-flopped and believe flying over the parks was still off. I don't mind losing a drone but the fines go up to thousands of dollars. Not worth it.
 
1. EVs owners pay taxes, some of which end up in the coffers of the Dept. of the Interior (and eventually NPS).

4. In 2017, China announced its intention to phase out the production and sale of gas and diesel vehicles altogether

We all pay taxes for a lot of things that don't benefit us directly, and those of us driving EVs are a tiny minority. Spending money to cater to too many small interests is a big piece of how we end up $20T in debt. I don't want the government to spend money. I would be more inclined to call hotels and tell them I want to book a room somewhere with 240volt charging.

Far as China, you want to pretend like China is leading the green charge. Look up CFC-11 for how they actually act as opposed to what they tell the gullible they will do.
 
1. EVs owners pay taxes, some of which end up in the coffers of the Dept. of the Interior (and eventually NPS).
<0,7% of car owners are EV owners in the US. You want a major chunk of their budget for less than 0,7% of their visitors? Sounds like something every Planner would have a good laugh with.

2. Planning for new infrastructure is part of the charter of the Dept. of the Interior (EVs since at least 2014)
Nothing wrong with planning, but executing on a major scale with barely any users around yet would be stupid, and that`s why they`re not hurrying anything right now and are correct in doing so.

4. In 2017, China announced its intention to phase out the production and sale of gas and diesel vehicles altogether.
Man that`s a good joke. good old green china, what would our environment do without them.I absolutely fail to see why that should make US NPS feel the need to hurry up with their EV infrastructure as long as the EV percentage is still below 0,7%. The chinese will definitely be a catalyst for the ev market in the future, but since we`re talking about right now...0,7% in the US!


5. Two years ago, the Dutch government voted to end all gas and diesel car sales by 2025.
Cute. A country with 10 cars decided that the next 10 cars will be EVs from !2030! on. Now that`s huge....

6. A year ago, India said that it would end sales of gas and diesel cars by 2030.
Same pointless argument as with china. Every country has to plan and act according to its own needs, and so far despite everything being said or planned around the world...0,7%!

7. Norway, France, UK, all following suit. (Interesting enough, Merkel (Germany) hasn't commented on a date. I guess they're still fiddling around with diesel emissions numbers and auto computers to sell VWs.)
You should totally move to one of these countries and write the managers of their national parks then. maybe they won`t think the argument to invest heavily in EV infrastructure without actually having users for it because someone overseas said sth in a newspaper article isn`t complete humbug there....

8. EV production and sales are growing exponentially.
Oh good, that exponential growth will turn the EV market into something that`s actually worthy to consider for the majority of the infrastructure in a few years then. You know, in the future...not right now where the money would be wasted on 0,7%......
 
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Sharkbait, look up the CFC-11 scandal, massive open use of a long banned chemical in the China spray foam industry, Is so widespread when confronted they weren't ashamed or trying to hide it.
Saved them $100 per ton of gas made, not per ton of foam, per ton of gas, guessing a ton of gas goes a LONG ways.
 
@Phrixotrichus

And so what are you driving or are you just trolling here? Look, there is no denying that EVs will become more mainstream exponentially, regardless of the source of fuel is being used for things other than charging one's car. Maybe you should be trolling Merkel if you believe everything you say is true. This thread is about the availability of charging stations in U.S. national parks, of which there are few, and something you appear to know little about. I suspect few here have much love for Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, or all the VWs that are now being recalled.
 
Sharkbait, look up the CFC-11 scandal, massive open use of a
long banned chemical in the China spray foam industry, Is so widespread when confronted they weren't ashamed or trying to hide it.

Plenty of scandals here in the US too. Again, the growth of EVs in China is twice that of the US. Is that bad? Chinese automakers produced almost 700,000 all-electric vehicles in 2017. Set aside other issues, is that bad?
 
@Phrixotrichus

And so what are you driving or are you just trolling here?
Mercedes E class waiting for the Model 3 to come overseas, or the VW ID, or maybe even the Merc EQC depending on how that turns out.

[Oh we agree here. Gasoline cars have to go, at least in cities. And that will happen, but right now EVs are <1% pretty much everywhere...and as i mentioned they`re at <0,7 in the US.

Maybe you should be trolling Merkel if you believe everything you say is true.
The beautiful thing about numbers is, that they`re true regardless of what people choose to believe. Pointing out those numbers, aka reality, can also not be considered trolling if you don`t have some agenda that doesn`t go along well with simple facts.

This thread is about the availability of charging stations in U.S. national parks, of which there are few, and something you appear to know little about.
Well, I just returned from a US national park tour a few weeks ago and had actively decided against a tesla loaner simply for the reason of the miserable charging infrastructure there.
Therefore I actually know exactly what you mean, I just absolutely don´t agree with your "I demand it and they have to do it because my opinion is all that matters"-attitude for the simple numeric facts I mentioned.
Just give the EV market time to actually become something worth considering, and the rest will solve itself. You´re an early adopter, and throwing a tantrum because the 99%+ majority doesn`t cater to your needs right now is absolutely silly.
 
Wow, that article dates back to 2014 when the Supercharger network was in its infancy! The author of that article highlights the dearth of charging stations in Yosemite Valley, a very legitimate complaint. Now, Yosemite is ringed by Superchargers. Had the author returned to Yosemite this summer, he could have charged his Model S at Groveland on the way in, stayed in Yosemite Valley without charging, then driven across the Sierra Nevadas, over Tioga Pass at almost 10,000', and on to the Mammoth Supercharger. Or he could have stopped at the Fish Camp Supercharger if heading south.

We've used our Model S to visit quite a few national parks around the West, including the high country of Yosemite National Park each year, and it's really not that difficult. Would we like to see more charging stations inside national parks? Yes, absolutely. But there remains plenty of capacity at most rural Superchargers near the parks we've visited.
 
This summer we did 5,700 miles of national Parks and skipped the grand canyon for this very reason. Pikes Peak, Red Rocks, Moab, Bryce, Zion, Mesa Verde, Antelope Canyon, and Lake Powell were all well represented with onsite L2 charging.
Wait ...
You skipped one of the most amazing places in the world because the SC was at most 75 miles out of your way !?
 
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As I see it, only Tesla has a practical long distance travel EV. Yes, others have the hybrids, but no other EV has anything like the Supercharger program.

That said, it looks to me like the National Park Service should have someone at the home office start coordinating with Tesla to install Superchargers at all National Parks that are a significant distance from Metro areas with a Supercharger. Maybe even start with a list of Parks with priority of need. As long as the NPS has the electrical capability Tesla has the Temp Superchargers on pallets.

Even installing a 2-station Supercharger, or 2 Urban Superchargers will go a long way to provide Tesla owners the ability to drive their EVs to the National Parks. After all, when we arrive we would only need to charge for 10 to 20 minutes to give us enough electrons to tour the park, then plug in again when needed before leaving. If no one is waiting in line, we could even stay longer to get more electrons. jmho
 
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Wait ...
You skipped one of the most amazing places in the world because the SC was at most 75 miles out of your way !?

IF there was chargers that close we would have gone to Grange Canyon! Its more than 125 miles when you are on the north rim side. It was going to be an extra 2 days and that pushed it out of our agenda. We had planned to Heli to GC, but that fell though due to weather.

We will fly back and hike the GC when we win the phantom ranch lottery. GC will be all the more impressive as its own trip and not following Moab, Bryce, Zion, Monument Valley, Lake Powell and Antelope Canyon. I still feel confident we made the right choice.
 
As long as the NPS has the electrical capability Tesla has the Temp Superchargers on pallets.
That sounds good, but NPS sites generally do not have the electrical capacity needed to support Superchargers, and making serious upgrades involves layers of bureaucracy. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. At national park visitor centers, I'd love to see rows of Superchargers and destination chargers, all operated by private companies. It's just that I think we need to temper our expectations in light of the political challenges involved (from both the left and the right). The solution is most likely a combination of more EVs on the road and more political involvement among those in favor of clean energy and EVs. But that's a relatively long game.

Even installing a 2-station Supercharger, or 2 Urban Superchargers will go a long way to provide Tesla owners the ability to drive their EVs to the National Parks. After all, when we arrive we would only need to charge for 10 to 20 minutes to give us enough electrons to tour the park, then plug in again when needed before leaving. If no one is waiting in line, we could even stay longer to get more electrons. jmho
This idea has merit because it might be feasible in many locations without significant electrical upgrades. On the other hand, given the rapid sales of the Model 3, I don't think it would be wise for Tesla to deploy only two Superchargers per location except in the most remote, lightly visited parks. The problem is that Supercharger users expect reliability, redundancy, and fast throughput, and it would (rightly or wrongly) reflect poorly on Tesla if such pairs of in-park Superchargers were to become overly congested and/or both stop functioning at spec. To meet expectations and avoid negative stories in the press, it seems that Tesla's management feels obligated to build out many of their newest Supercharger sites in preparation for peak demand.

Destination chargers, on the other hand, would be feasible to add at many park sites using existing electrical infrastructure. If Tesla and perhaps other charging network operators can approach the federal government, at the national level, with offers to install destination chargers at no net cost to the US taxpayer, then we might get somewhere. Perhaps Tesla could start by trying this in California and/or Nevada at the state level, as there are plenty of state parks and workplaces in need of charging stations!

IF there was chargers that close we would have gone to Grange Canyon! Its more than 125 miles when you are on the north rim side. It was going to be an extra 2 days and that pushed it out of our agenda. We had planned to Heli to GC, but that fell though due to weather.
Makes sense. The North Rim should do-able, thanks to the Superchargers in St. George, UT and Page, AZ as well as destination chargers along the way (as per PlugShare), but we haven't yet been there in our Model S. It definitely requires more planning than visiting the South Rim.
 
1. EVs owners pay taxes, some of which end up in the coffers of the Dept. of the Interior (and eventually NPS).


Who is going to invest in all this infrastructure? I vote for a foreign visitor fee to our National Parks, say $100/head per park visited. Last year, approximately one million visitors to the GC were from a foreign country. (1,000,000 X $100 = $100,000,000). At $300K - $400K per supercharger site, Elon can put in 250 supercharger sites in the 1,900 sq. mile park. There ya go. Infrastructure paid for in one year!!!!



I agree! Most countries charge foreign visitors a premium to visit their national treasures.

Example: Musee d' Orsay in Paris, Free Admission

Conditions & proof of elegibility
Available to Proof of status
Under 18s
ID card with photograph
18-25 year-olds who are citizens of an EU member state ID card with photograph
18-25 year olds who are not citizens of an EU member state but are long-term residents of France or other EU country(holders of a visa valid for more than 3 months) ID card with photograph and current student card or residence certificate
Holders of Carte blanche Current membership card
Holders of Carte blanche with one guest Current "Duo" membership card
Members of ICOM and ICOMOS Membership card valid for the current year
Members and benefactors of the Société des Amis du Musée d'Orsay or of American Friends of the Musée d'Orsay Membership or benefactor card valid for the current year
Holders of Louvre Abu Dhabi Member Card with one guest Current "Member+1" card
Holders of Louvre Abu Dhabi Member Card with up to five guests Current "Member+5" card
Enrolled students of the Ecole du Louvre

Student card valid for the current year
Unenrolled students of the Ecole du Louvre Student card valid for the current year
Students of the Ecole Nationale du Patrimoine, Ecole des Chartes, IFROA, and those studying for university diplomas in restoration Student card valid for the current year
University and state school art students, up to age 30, enrolled in architecture, history of Art, archaeology, plastic arts, graphic arts, industrial design, applied arts, photography, cinema, audio-visual, fashion design, museum, heritage and landscape, (excluding those enrolled in evening classes, university of the 3rd age, etc)

Student card mentioning the artistic section valid for the current year
Teachers of the following subjects in state universities and art schools: architecture, history of Art, archaeology, plastic arts, graphic arts, industrial design, applied arts, photography, cinema, audio-visual, fashion design, museum, heritage and landscape Teacher's card mentionaning the artistic subject valid for the current year
Job seekers Current certificate (under 6 months or justifying an authorised period), plus ID card with photograph
Those in receipt of minimum social benefits

RSA or other certificate (from CAF or town hall), plus valid ID card with photograph
Those in receipt of minimum vieillesse Annual certificate of receipt of the supplementary allowance of the National Solidarity Fund
Accompanied, disabled visitors holding a disability card or a "priority" card for the disabled Valid cards issued by the MDPH (local regional authority for the disabled) and the CDAPH (commission for the rights of disabled persons to independence), a COTOREP card with DDASS stamp, an ONAC card or equivalent certificate from another country, together with photographic ID
Teachers of French schools
Valid Pass Education

Students in ESPE (formerly IUFM, 1st and 2nd year) Student card valid for the current year
Active or retired Ministry of Culture personnel, accompanied by one person
Current Ministry of Culture card

Curators and inspectors of French and International public museums Current Professional membership card
Personnel from the National Institute of the History of Art INHA card valid for the current year
Journalists and art critics Press card, professional membership card, or union card
Professional artists (painters, sculptors, engravers) Current card authorised by Maison des artistes, or by Cité internationale des arts, or international artists ID
  • RMN guides, national guide,
  • National guide-interpreter (and permanent assistant)
  • Regional guide-interpreter from Ile de France (and permanent assistant)
  • Specialist art and history guides
Professional card of French Ministries of Culture and Tourism
rench government deputies and senators, and members of the European Parliament ID card for the National Assembly, Senate, or European Parliament
Accompanied groups of persons on income support or minimum wage Certificate from the town hall
Accompanied groups of working teachers with a French Education Pass
 
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Nit. They didn't (and can't). Airspace is federal and managed by the FAA. What the NPS did was to prevent drones from landing and taking of in a national park. But you can overfly it all day as long as you take off and land from outside the park.
And stay below 400' AGL and keep it within line-of-sight. Which for all practical purposes prohibits flying within the park.