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Electric vehicle registration hike in Idaho

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You should all move to Arizona - only $120 for 5 years of registration. I'm sorry, but I think they should raise the taxes on ICE cars - ICE cars need to disappear and we should penalize those that continue to drive them. Once we have everyone in an electric vehicle, we can do a per-mile tax based on vehicle weight.

Brent
 
galvatron
So you're in Bothell. ('Brothel'?, lol) And you think the weather is great? I think most agree that for half the year it is soaking wet. No that feeling you vaguely perceive is a fantastic economy and good vibes. You have chosen to live in a FAR LEFT region and that's what it is about -- whereas it appears you should be in a nice middle-America Red State like Nebraska rather than enjoying our oxygen. You know not whence the locus is.
Signed: A Democratic Socialist

Yes, that's right. Lovely Brothell! LOL

Considering the weather in the other states, I still think this is the best place to live in the country. We have the cleanest air, it's not too hot or too cold, and it's not muggy. The price we pay is the rain for half the year, but that keeps the air clean, so I'm ok with that. Better than breathing smog all year round or dying of heat and humidity, or digging out of feet of snow every year.

I did NOT choose to live in a FAR LEFT region. It chose me. It USED to be more moderate here where we had Republican governors and legislatures now and then. Now it is all democrats!! I totally see us moving toward being a second California. Our freaking governor is doing everything California is doing and he's on his third term now!

We used to not have toll roads, now we do...
We now sanction undocumented people...
Voting is all by mail and requires no documented proof you are a citizen besides checking a box declaring you are...
Seattle is now a joke in the eyes of the world... we let the mob take over several blocks and let them invade a police station and the govt did nothing for weeks...
Homeless camps are spreading and expanding from Seattle outward...
Businesses are leaving Seattle and out of state... (i.e. Amazon, Boeing)
We are taxed to death, yet our roads still suck and traffic is hell...

Next they are attempting to get a state income tax in place.... That is the one thing left they haven't successfully done yet. But like the EV charge that Sparkx said above, their tactic is to sneak it in by trying to approve a TINY income tax only on the rich, and then after it is in, they will just keep raising it expanding it to the middle class. That is the sneaky tactic they always use and the people keep falling for it.

I just don't get why people vote in government that spends spends spends without restraint and think the money comes from nowhere. In our own households, people restrict spending first when there are budget issues, not go rob a bank to get more income. The democrats think it's ok to keep getting more credit cards when they don't have enough money. *SMH*
 
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I see what you mean. It is alot harder here when you don't have money.

But, nobody is changing anybody's mind, however much you may shout. Stay and whine and give whitex reacharounds, or go where you are wanted. Everybody sees you.
 
This came up in Utah not too long ago. It got shot down.

I sort of see where they're coming from and I agree that ev drivers need to pay their fair share to maintain the roads. On the other hand, Utah has some of the worst air in the country. By driving an ev I'm doing quite a bit to help on that front.
 
I just don't get why people vote in government that spends spends spends without restraint and think the money comes from nowhere.
The answer is really simple, they think of the government the way little children think of their parents - all it takes to get new stuff is to give someone this little plastic card and they give the card right back to you along with new stuff. Just like children, people think they "deserve" stuff for being good (or simply for not being bad). Most people don't think about details and implications of what they are voting for. They often vote for things with nativity of a small child - say "everyone is equally entitled to the same healthcare provided by the government", oh wait, does that mean that a homeless person gets the same private doctor and helicopter rides to the hospital as the president of the United States is provided by the federal government? Oh, ok, "there are exceptions, he does more for society than a homeless person"; well anyone who has a job does more for society than a homeless person, so they should be entitled to better healthcare by the government too, right? "Oh no, you are just trying to confuse me! Everyone should be able to get everything for free if they are good people, because they deserve it!"

As you grow up, you're supposed to start using "earned" more in your thinking instead of "deserve". Sadly a lot of people stay perpetual children, who then vote in the democratic process. The ironic thing is, it's the people who are well-off who tend to stay perpetual children more.
 
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The answer is really simple, they think of the government the way little children think of their parents - all it takes to get new stuff is to give someone this little plastic card and they give the card right back to you along with new stuff. Just like children, people think they "deserve" stuff for being good (or simply for not being bad). Most people don't think about details and implications of what they are voting for. They often vote for things with nativity of a small child - say "everyone is equally entitled to the same healthcare provided by the government", oh wait, does that mean that a homeless person gets the same private doctor and helicopter rides to the hospital as the president of the United States is provided by the federal government? Oh, ok, "there are exceptions, he does more for society than a homeless person"; well anyone who has a job does more for society than a homeless person, so they should be entitled to better healthcare by the government too, right? "Oh no, you are just trying to confuse me! Everyone should be able to get everything for free if they are good people, because they deserve it!"

As you grow up, you're supposed to start using "earned" more in your thinking instead of "deserve". Sadly a lot of people stay perpetual children, who then vote in the democratic process. The ironic thing is, it's the people who are well-off who tend to stay perpetual children more.
Totally agree! Everyone thinks they are entitled now and they should just get everything they see their neighbors have because they "exist". But they don't understand that is the very concept that leads to socialism/communism which history tells us doesn't work and most people in this country are still against.
Oh well... we can go on and on about this, but I guess things won't change anytime soon until the country implodes on itself and everyone has nothing! *SMH*

Anyways, let me try to somewhat bring us back to topic on this thread and get out of politics...

Is anyone going to go back to ICE cars because of the extra registration fees the govt claims is to compensate for lack of gas tax revenue? If I trusted the govt to truly REMOVE the gas tax, then I would go along with tax per mile for every car on the road which I think would be most fair. But sadly, if they get tax by mile in place, many jurisdictions will keep the gas tax also because I never see govt truly removing taxes that they already have in place (at least not in Washington state).
 
Oh well... we can go on and on about this, but I guess things won't change anytime soon until the country implodes on itself and everyone has nothing!

Absolutely right, and that is why my attitude is not to try to change the world, but instead adapt and make the best decisions for me and my family given whatever current conditions, government regulation, or whatever. Things change, re-evaluate and proceed accordingly. I think people should live with the consequences of what they vote for - not my job to fix it for them.

PS> I was born and raised in a communist country, so let me tell you first hand, communism doesn't work. If you think the government is corrupt now, it gets 100 times worse when the government owns everything (in the name of everything belonging to the people). As my father used to say, you know the system is a complete failure if it cannot even reliably provide toilet paper to its citizens - you had to have the right connections and pay the right bribes to get even toilet paper. There was a perpetual shortage as the factories were government owned and there was no opportunity to make money by innovation, optimization, etc - no matter the output of the factory, the workers got paid the same, so no incentive whatsoever to work. A lot of people just used newspapers if they didn't have the right connections. Funny story btw, after my family escaped and when I was learning other languages (including English which was my 4th language), I realized that while growing up, the word "buy" or "purchase" was almost never used. Everyone used the word "arrange" instead. You didn't go buy meat, you arranged for meat. You didn't buy toilet paper, you arranged for toilet paper. And yes, there were stores, but most of them had little but empty shelves, and for places like gas stations, you needed special government coupons to be able to buy gas (for people who had cars, which most didn't, and even if you did, the coupons allowed you to drive to work and back, if you wanted more, you had to arrange for extra coupons through the right connections).
Anyways, let me try to somewhat bring us back to topic on this thread and get out of politics...

Is anyone going to go back to ICE cars because of the extra registration fees the govt claims is to compensate for lack of gas tax revenue?
As I said earlier, $150 seems fair, as a way to help recoup the revenue lost for gasoline tax. So that will not get me to move to an ICE. Moving all cars to per-mile charge and removing gasoline taxes would be even more fair, but complicated to implement. $0.15 a mile for just EV's on other hand makes EV's more expensive to drive than a gas guzzler, so when making a decision of what to drive, a 1000hp car comes out cheaper to drive than a Tesla.🤷‍♂️
 
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PS> I was born and raised in a communist country, so let me tell you first hand, communism doesn't work. If you think the government is corrupt now, it gets 100 times worse when the government owns everything (in the name of everything belonging to the people). As my father used to say, you know the system is a complete failure if it cannot even reliably provide toilet paper to its citizens - you had to have the right connections and pay the right bribes to get even toilet paper. There was a perpetual shortage as the factories were government owned and there was no opportunity to make money by innovation, optimization, etc - no matter the output of the factory, the workers got paid the same, so no incentive whatsoever to work. A lot of people just used newspapers if they didn't have the right connections. Funny story btw, after my family escaped and when I was learning other languages (including English which was my 4th language), I realized that while growing up, the word "buy" or "purchase" was almost never used. Everyone used the word "arrange" instead. You didn't go buy meat, you arranged for meat. You didn't buy toilet paper, you arranged for toilet paper. And yes, there were stores, but most of them had little but empty shelves, and for places like gas stations, you needed special government coupons to be able to buy gas (for people who had cars, which most didn't, and even if you did, the coupons allowed you to drive to work and back, if you wanted more, you had to arrange for extra coupons through the right connections).

As I said earlier, $150 seems fair, as a way to help recoup the revenue lost for gasoline tax. So that will not get me to move to an ICE. Moving all cars to per-mile charge and removing gasoline taxes would be even more fair, but complicated to implement. $0.15 a mile for just EV's on other hand makes EV's more expensive to drive than a gas guzzler, so when making a decision of what to drive, a 1000hp car comes out cheaper to drive than a Tesla.🤷‍♂️
I too am foreign born and partly foreign raised in a communist country. I was lucky that my parents got me out when I was young. English is my second language and let me tell you when I was young even I could see that corruption was everywhere. Either you are well off by being ‘in’ with the govt or you are begging for toilet paper or you had to know someone who knows someone to get any kind of service. It’s the naive people who haven’t truly seen how communism/socialism works that keep voting for these govt officials we get under the false pretense of everyone getting everything for free!

As for the EV surcharge yeah, ok the $150 seems fair. But what do you think about the extra $75 supposedly for charging infrastructure? I may have gone along with that for the Tesla, but I got ticked off when I got charged that on my Prius as well... and no, it’s not a plug in Prius. Why the heck should hybrid users get charged for electric charging infrastructure that they can never use? That’s just a money grab in my books! Just making up excuses to suck more money from the people.
 
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Perhaps all those Californians are moving to Washington to get away from California, then voting in California style government. Reminds me of an ex-coworker who is a Russian immigrant and who is big and open fan of communism. I asked him once why on earth he lives in the USA, instead of communist Russia where he has citizenship. His answer, "Russia doesn't know how to do communism right", so he wants US to turn communist because he truly believes that to be the best system in the world (presumably based on his mandatory schooling back in Russia).

PS> Did you notice that Washington is so much in the bag for the left, that the Associated Press calls WA for the democrats as soon as the first vote comes in, regardless of who that vote is for? Attached is a screenshot I took on my phone during last election - AP called a win for Biden with 1% reporting and Trump having the majority of the reported votes. That is how certain the left wins are in Washington in today's times.
As a Californian who’s actively trying to move, it irks me to hear so many flee the state due to high taxes and cost of living only to vote in the same type of government and policies that made this state unlivable for a middle class group.

I used to be a moderate democrat but unfortunately I can’t even afford to be that anymore in this state, so now I’m a republican in a sea of blue. And that’s fine, I now have the same mentality as @whitex where I’m going to do what’s best for me and my family, and everyone who voted for this in this state can enjoy it.

Another big issue here is the government often introduces new taxes under the guise of helping the schools and yet the schools are severely underfunded because those taxes usually get rerouted to the general fund after they’re in place.

This state now has a water shortage, electricity shortage during peak times in the summer and a homeless population that’s growing uncontrollably. The median home price in my city is 561k, first world home prices in a 3rd world state.
 
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lol, Ok.

I can't see and I don't care what whitex says. But you galvatron and he have made an emotional decision, as opposed to an intellectual decision on politics. You do not associate the prosperity around you, with the policies. You do not understand what's meant by 'Free-Market Failures' and the reasonable regulation needed to correct for those.

And most of all, you have never lived in western Europe which has the most equitable distribution of wealth and highest quality of life in the world, if you consider objective reports by the Economist Intelligence Unit, Wharton School of Business, World Population Review et al. Yes, alll democratic socialist. I lived there for years in the '70's when I was with intelligence, and their standard of living even then was strikingly higher than ours. There, government fears the people, rather than the other way around, as here.

Every other developed nation on Earth (yes including Canada) can afford to give all their citizens free university for the deserving, high-quality free medical care (whereas our medical system ranks #37, just below Costa Rica), and a dignified retirement for seniors. But, alas, we can not afford to, no.

So you just continue to live in your echo chamber, as you float to the bottom of the toilet bowl.
 
lol, Ok.

I can't see and I don't care what whitex says. But you galvatron and he have made an emotional decision, as opposed to an intellectual decision on politics. You do not associate the prosperity around you, with the policies. You do not understand what's meant by 'Free-Market Failures' and the reasonable regulation needed to correct for those.

And most of all, you have never lived in western Europe which has the most equitable distribution of wealth and highest quality of life in the world, if you consider objective reports by the Economist Intelligence Unit, Wharton School of Business, World Population Review et al. Yes, alll democratic socialist. I lived there for years in the '70's when I was with intelligence, and their standard of living even then was strikingly higher than ours. There, government fears the people, rather than the other way around, as here.

Every other developed nation on Earth (yes including Canada) can afford to give all their citizens free university for the deserving, high-quality free medical care (whereas our medical system ranks #37, just below Costa Rica), and a dignified retirement for seniors. But, alas, we can not afford to, no.

So you just continue to live in your echo chamber, as you float to the bottom of the toilet bowl.
Not sure how I’m floating to the bottom of the toilet bowl by saving most of my money rather than giving it to the government. Wanna talk about equitable wealth distribution, alright im down with that cause, can we start with Governor Newsom? He received over 200 million in campaign donations in 2020 from companies that later received government contracts (nothing shady about that) so how about he shares that with us toilet bowl floaters ...
 
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As a Californian who’s actively trying to move, it irks me to hear so many flee the state due to high taxes and cost of living only to vote in the same type of government and policies that made this state unlivable for a middle class group.

I used to be a moderate democrat but unfortunately I can’t even afford to be that anymore in this state, so now I’m a republican in a sea of blue. And that’s fine, I now have the same mentality as @whitex where I’m going to do what’s best for me and my family, and everyone who voted for this in this state can enjoy it.

Another big issue here is the government often introduces new taxes under the guise of helping the schools and yet the schools are severely underfunded because those taxes usually get rerouted to the general fund after they’re in place.

This state now has a water shortage, electricity shortage during peak times in the summer and a homeless population that’s growing uncontrollably. The median home price in my city is 561k, first world home prices in a 3rd world state.
You are so exactly right on all of this. That is exactly what is happening to us in Washington state. The govt adds new taxes under some false pretense and then reroutes it to the general fund, then complains there is not enough tax money for the original project and raises taxes again. If they truly used 100% of gas tax for roads, we wouldn't be in such bad shape.

Our housing prices are skyrocketing and at this rate, many of us will be priced out of our own homes because property taxes are going up both in percentages AND appraised value.
 
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lol, Ok.

I can't see and I don't care what whitex says. But you galvatron and he have made an emotional decision, as opposed to an intellectual decision on politics. You do not associate the prosperity around you, with the policies. You do not understand what's meant by 'Free-Market Failures' and the reasonable regulation needed to correct for those.

And most of all, you have never lived in western Europe which has the most equitable distribution of wealth and highest quality of life in the world, if you consider objective reports by the Economist Intelligence Unit, Wharton School of Business, World Population Review et al. Yes, alll democratic socialist. I lived there for years in the '70's when I was with intelligence, and their standard of living even then was strikingly higher than ours. There, government fears the people, rather than the other way around, as here.

Every other developed nation on Earth (yes including Canada) can afford to give all their citizens free university for the deserving, high-quality free medical care (whereas our medical system ranks #37, just below Costa Rica), and a dignified retirement for seniors. But, alas, we can not afford to, no.

So you just continue to live in your echo chamber, as you float to the bottom of the toilet bowl.
Wow... this is wrong on so many levels. This is the first time I heard someone saying red-leaning people are making "emotional" decisions. It's the left that make emotional decision... in fact, justification for most of the left's policies are based on emotions only. They feel bad for the illegal children at the border, they feel bad for dreamers that were brought her illegally, they feel bad for the other nations that are poor... but they don't feel the same way about all the US citizens who are in the same predicament? The immigrants who follow the law and want to come here legally have to apply and wait 10+ years because others overrun the system with sheer numbers that just show up. US Citizens are homeless on the streets, yet we pay to house and feed illegals.

I associate the prosperity in this country as a result of the way the country was run since its inception... and as far as I know, the USA has never been Communist or Socialist, so I don't see how we are where we are now based on any policies remotely related to how the LEFT are trying to take us. I never said we don't need policies to correct for "Free-Market Failures"... just minimalistic ones instead of the govt taking over everything. The underlying question is does anyone really believe the Govt can spend money or run any program more efficiently than we can ourselves???

And you think Western Europe is way better than the USA? Wow... another head-turner. True, I have never lived there... but more than half my colleagues at work live and work in Western Europe and I always hear about all the issues there compared to the USA. Their "most equitable distribution of wealth and highest quality of life" as you call it is very much subjective. They take home less than 50% of their earnings because they are taxed to death... their cars are routinely at least double the prices of ours, gas is over $6+ a gallon, healthcare while "free" is a long waiting list for whatever situation you are in. That's why the "well off" people in Western Europe still routinely fly to the US to get medical care that they have to wait months for there. You call this better?

Lastly, the very flaw in socialism/communism is the "emotional" belief that everyone should get everything for free. Even if you toss aside the fact that corruption always takes hold (show me a socialist country where the govt gets the same services - not better or more - than the common people do!), the instant everyone gets the same things for free, then that "thing" is no longer of value because there is no drive or incentive to do better. As soon as someone does do better, the govt redistributes their success to everyone else who did nothing to get it. This has never in history worked and still doesn't...
 
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Yeah, yeah, yeah galvitron. All received 'wisdom', unexperienced impressions, and echo-chamber ditto-head talking-points....

But no evidence. Because your masters' instructions are unsupportable by actual reality, actions, and facts in practice.

Science is real. Science matters.

I gave you the highly credible and peer-reviewed evidence. But classically you are and shall always remain, blind to credible and peer-reviewed facts which conflict with your painfully contrived fantasies.

Nobody's changing anyone's mind. This exchange is senseless. Move to a Red State where you will be much more happy rather than whinging all the time.

I have spoken.
 
As for the EV surcharge yeah, ok the $150 seems fair. But what do you think about the extra $75 supposedly for charging infrastructure? I may have gone along with that for the Tesla, but I got ticked off when I got charged that on my Prius as well... and no, it’s not a plug in Prius. Why the heck should hybrid users get charged for electric charging infrastructure that they can never use? That’s just a money grab in my books! Just making up excuses to suck more money from the people.
I agree with you that a car which cannot plug-in to the charge should not be paying the $75. As for the fee for EV's which can, I can get behind it even though I almost never use chargers outside of my house (heck, my wide has been driving a Tesla for 4 years and has only charged once outside of the house, 10 minute supercharge) - charging infrastructure will enable wider EV adoption, which is good for most people. Capitalism does require public investment in infrastructure, as it does in social programs which serve as a safety net to allow people to take risks which further the society. The $75 fee pales in comparison to the RTA tax for some future (20+ years from now) transit system (just over 1% value of the car, but value determined by some moron at the DMV, however the government won't allow said evaluation if was I simply to give them my car in lieu of taxes). They got that "only 1% raise in registration fees increase" past the math impaired voters who didn't realize that 0.1% to 1.1% is a huge increase because 1% sounds so small. They also learned from the Seattle monorail taxes not to promise anything before they retire (remember, they had to return the money because they didn't deliver within the 4 or 5 years they said they would?). This way, in 20 years when people go asking where is this new public transit system which people like me pay $2K a year for, they will say "we don't know what you're talking about, go talk to the retired politicians who voted it in, they took the money".
 
lol, Ok.

I can't see and I don't care what whitex says. But you galvatron and he have made an emotional decision, as opposed to an intellectual decision on politics. You do not associate the prosperity around you, with the policies. You do not understand what's meant by 'Free-Market Failures' and the reasonable regulation needed to correct for those.

And most of all, you have never lived in western Europe which has the most equitable distribution of wealth and highest quality of life in the world, if you consider objective reports by the Economist Intelligence Unit, Wharton School of Business, World Population Review et al. Yes, alll democratic socialist. I lived there for years in the '70's when I was with intelligence, and their standard of living even then was strikingly higher than ours. There, government fears the people, rather than the other way around, as here.

Every other developed nation on Earth (yes including Canada) can afford to give all their citizens free university for the deserving, high-quality free medical care (whereas our medical system ranks #37, just below Costa Rica), and a dignified retirement for seniors. But, alas, we can not afford to, no.

So you just continue to live in your echo chamber, as you float to the bottom of the toilet bowl.
What you on about? Are you European? I am actually from the UK and what you’re saying is bollocks. The US is the greatest country in the world “because” of the free market. Socialism doesn’t work. Anyone can see that. But more than that is upward mobility which is non existent in European countries due to the class system. It’s very rigid. Here in the US we should be thankful not just for liberty but the ability to better yourself. It’s just not the case in other countries. Look at Canada right now. What a freaking shithole. Bloody police state. I do get tired of people that have never lived anywhere else criticize the US. It’s just plain ignorance.
 
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Yeah, yeah, yeah galvitron. All received 'wisdom', unexperienced impressions, and echo-chamber ditto-head talking-points....

But no evidence. Because your masters' instructions are unsupportable by actual reality, actions, and facts in practice.

Science is real. Science matters.

I gave you the highly credible and peer-reviewed evidence. But classically you are and shall always remain, blind to credible and peer-reviewed facts which conflict with your painfully contrived fantasies.

Nobody's changing anyone's mind. This exchange is senseless. Move to a Red State where you will be much more happy rather than whinging all the time.

I have spoken.
yea....right from the place where the sun dont shine
 
I think the $75 should be paid by all, since theoretically all will move to EV at some point and take advantage of the charging infrastructure!

I’m in Snohomish, down the street from Bothell, and not happy to be paying the $150 already. I agree we should pay our fair share, but IMO, $/mile for ALL is the fair way to go about it 👍. We are paying more now as EV owners vs ICE car owners and I own both.
 
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