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Electrician and work recommendation

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Reached out to a few electricians to install a charging outlet. My preference is for a NEMA 14-50 outlet as I don't want to be tied to a wall connector especially since my next EV may not be a Tesla. Of the three electricians, work scope was consistent, and couple did put forward an extra cost for city inspection, while the other said it was not necessary.

Yet another company put forward work scope that raised some questions. In summary they recommend against a mobile connector because "NEMA receptacles were required by code as of 2020 to use GFCI protected breakers. These breakers are more sensitive so they have issues with nuisance tripping. Some of our customers requested us to replace their NEMA receptacles with hardwired chargers because they weren't receiving a consistent charge throughout the night. Hardwired chargers like the Wall Connector have built in GFCI protection, so they can use a standard circuit breaker instead, which ironically enough is more consistent. The reason we'd recommend to install the small sub panel if you went with a NEMA receptacle is because we found they are a bit less likely to trip the breaker. This will potentially reduce the issue of your charger tripping."

Other electricians are saying a mobile connector is just fine if it meets your driving needs (there should never be nuisance tripping of the breaker) and the need to install a "small sub-panel next to the NEMA receptacle" is a complete waste?

Any thoughts?
 
Nuisance circuit breaker tripping when using the mobile connector with GFCI breakers appears to be a thing. How much of a problem it will be for your installation won't be known until everything is wired in place, including the use of a sub-panel. I'm not an electrician so I can't explain why the use of a sub-panel will lessen the chance of false tripping. Maybe the closer proximity of the GFCI breaker to the outlet is the reason?
 
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Reached out to a few electricians to install a charging outlet. My preference is for a NEMA 14-50 outlet as I don't want to be tied to a wall connector especially since my next EV may not be a Tesla. Of the three electricians, work scope was consistent, and couple did put forward an extra cost for city inspection, while the other said it was not necessary.

Yet another company put forward work scope that raised some questions. In summary they recommend against a mobile connector because "NEMA receptacles were required by code as of 2020 to use GFCI protected breakers. These breakers are more sensitive so they have issues with nuisance tripping. Some of our customers requested us to replace their NEMA receptacles with hardwired chargers because they weren't receiving a consistent charge throughout the night. Hardwired chargers like the Wall Connector have built in GFCI protection, so they can use a standard circuit breaker instead, which ironically enough is more consistent. The reason we'd recommend to install the small sub panel if you went with a NEMA receptacle is because we found they are a bit less likely to trip the breaker. This will potentially reduce the issue of your charger tripping."

Other electricians are saying a mobile connector is just fine if it meets your driving needs (there should never be nuisance tripping of the breaker) and the need to install a "small sub-panel next to the NEMA receptacle" is a complete waste?

Any thoughts?


Im not an electrician, but from all the reading I do here, I am sure they are correct on the need for the GFCI breaker when installing an outlet, vs not needing one if installing a hard wired wall connector.

I also have seen reports of nuisance tripping in this instance. Certainly not widespread, but I do seem to remember people talking about it. IMO the electrician recommending either a hard wired wall connector or a sub panel to prevent nuisance tripping is doing two things.

1. Trying to prevent call back / re work due to complaints about nuisance tripping that "didnt happen before, and you installed this outlet so fix it at your cost".

2. Quoting a slightly higher ticket install because they dont want to deal with point #1. I would bet that if you compare their quote for installing the 14-50 outlet, gfci breaker, and the sub panel they are quoting, vs installing a wall connector, installing the wall connector is probably the same overall price from them.

Note that if you dont want to install the tesla wall connector for some reason (because you might get another EV in the future thats non tesla), that there are two ways to deal with that. One would be to buy a "tesla to J1772 adapter" if you install the tesla wall connector. The other would be to buy a J1772 wall connector and then use the adapter that the tesla comes with to charge it.

I personally dont think anyone should be paying to install 14-50 outlets to charge their cars. If you have an existing solution, that is one thing (dryer outlet, previously existing adapter, etc), or are able to install the outlet yourself, thats one thing.

I dont see much benefit in paying an electrician to install an adapter vs installing a wall connector.

Note that I am NOT SAYING that one needs to use a wall connector to charge a tesla (repeat for clarity.. I am NOT SAYING a wall connector is necessary to charge a tesla).

What I AM saying however, is that IF one is paying someone to install something for charging, there usually is no real reason to install an outlet vs some type of wall connector (tesla or otherwise). The cost isnt that different, and there are adapters to convert tesla to X or X to Tesla, respectively, for any wall connector from a reputable brand.
 
What I AM saying however, is that IF one is paying someone to install something for charging, there usually is no real reason to install an outlet vs some type of wall connector (tesla or otherwise). The cost isnt that different, and there are adapters to convert tesla to X or X to Tesla, respectively, for any wall connector from a reputable brand.
Many (most?) wall mount EVSEs are plug-in if they are 40A or less (for use with outlets up to 50A, such as 14-50 or 6-50).

For 48A hardwire wall mount EVSEs, most of the J1772 ones appear to cost as much as or more than the Tesla wall connector + Tesla->J1772 adapter.
 
Many (most?) wall mount EVSEs are plug-in if they are 40A or less (for use with outlets up to 50A, such as 14-50 or 6-50).

For 48A hardwire wall mount EVSEs, most of the J1772 ones appear to cost as much as or more than the Tesla wall connector + Tesla->J1772 adapter.

Yeah they cost more than the tesla one, for sure. For the price, especially since tesla has lowered it, its very hard to beat the tesla wall connector (even with an outlet, unless one is doing the work themselves, or not doing it to code).
 
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Reached out to a few electricians to install a charging outlet. My preference is for a NEMA 14-50 outlet as I don't want to be tied to a wall connector especially since my next EV may not be a Tesla. Of the three electricians, work scope was consistent, and couple did put forward an extra cost for city inspection, while the other said it was not necessary.

Yet another company put forward work scope that raised some questions. In summary they recommend against a mobile connector because "NEMA receptacles were required by code as of 2020 to use GFCI protected breakers. These breakers are more sensitive so they have issues with nuisance tripping. Some of our customers requested us to replace their NEMA receptacles with hardwired chargers because they weren't receiving a consistent charge throughout the night. Hardwired chargers like the Wall Connector have built in GFCI protection, so they can use a standard circuit breaker instead, which ironically enough is more consistent. The reason we'd recommend to install the small sub panel if you went with a NEMA receptacle is because we found they are a bit less likely to trip the breaker. This will potentially reduce the issue of your charger tripping."

Other electricians are saying a mobile connector is just fine if it meets your driving needs (there should never be nuisance tripping of the breaker) and the need to install a "small sub-panel next to the NEMA receptacle" is a complete waste?

Any thoughts?
I would install a HPWC, and get an adapter if you get a different EV down the road.

The GFCI tripping is one reason perhaps, faster charging rates is the better reason.

I also like to treat my universal mobile connector as my spare and road trip charger. I know it is lightly used, and so hopefully will be very reliable when I really really need it. I already went through one UMC in my ownership. Now I have HPWC at both work and home and keep the newish UMC in the trunk.
 
Yeah they cost more than the tesla one, for sure. For the price, especially since tesla has lowered it, its very hard to beat the tesla wall connector (even with an outlet, unless one is doing the work themselves, or not doing it to code).
Basically, it comes down to, if you are installing all new and buying the EVSE, the Tesla wall connector is probably within $50 of a Tesla mobile connector + outlet + GFCI breaker. For most people, the Tesla wall connector would be better in this situation; the exception would be if it is desired to be able to take the Tesla mobile connector to places like campgrounds or rental cabins for charging on occasional trips (not frequent, since plugging / unplugging frequently is not advised).

However, if you already have a suitable outlet, and/or a suitable plug-in EVSE, then it can be less expensive to complete the outlet + plug-in EVSE solution.
 
Im not an electrician, but from all the reading I do here, I am sure they are correct on the need for the GFCI breaker when installing an outlet, vs not needing one if installing a hard wired wall connector.

I also have seen reports of nuisance tripping in this instance. Certainly not widespread, but I do seem to remember people talking about it. IMO the electrician recommending either a hard wired wall connector or a sub panel to prevent nuisance tripping is doing two things.

1. Trying to prevent call back / re work due to complaints about nuisance tripping that "didnt happen before, and you installed this outlet so fix it at your cost".

2. Quoting a slightly higher ticket install because they dont want to deal with point #1. I would bet that if you compare their quote for installing the 14-50 outlet, gfci breaker, and the sub panel they are quoting, vs installing a wall connector, installing the wall connector is probably the same overall price from them.

Note that if you dont want to install the tesla wall connector for some reason (because you might get another EV in the future thats non tesla), that there are two ways to deal with that. One would be to buy a "tesla to J1772 adapter" if you install the tesla wall connector. The other would be to buy a J1772 wall connector and then use the adapter that the tesla comes with to charge it.

I personally dont think anyone should be paying to install 14-50 outlets to charge their cars. If you have an existing solution, that is one thing (dryer outlet, previously existing adapter, etc), or are able to install the outlet yourself, thats one thing.

I dont see much benefit in paying an electrician to install an adapter vs installing a wall connector.

Note that I am NOT SAYING that one needs to use a wall connector to charge a tesla (repeat for clarity.. I am NOT SAYING a wall connector is necessary to charge a tesla).

What I AM saying however, is that IF one is paying someone to install something for charging, there usually is no real reason to install an outlet vs some type of wall connector (tesla or otherwise). The cost isnt that different, and there are adapters to convert tesla to X or X to Tesla, respectively, for any wall connector from a reputable brand.
Thank you all for the valuable feedback. I had no idea you could get an adapter that would allow you to convert Tesla to X with a wall connector in place, hence I only considered the NEMA outlet for that reason as I wanted flexibility for my future non Tesla EV.

And you are absolutely correct regarding quote comparison between a NEMA installation + small sub panel (to mitigate nuisance tripping) + GFCI breaker versus the wall connector; they are almost the same. In that case, I’m now inclined towards the wall connector as this will give higher charge rate and more importantly nuisance tripping will hopefully be a non-issue.
 
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I concur with the others, the HPWC is the way to go for sure.

I wanted to mention the permitting. Since you list San Mateo as your location, I GTFY....

Electrical permits are required for the following:
  • Installation of new electrical service, service upgrades, or relocations
  • Installation of electric wiring and equipment within or on a building, or on other premises, such as:
    • Yards
    • Carnivals
    • Parking lots


That says to me something akin to: "You absolutely need a permit/inspection"

Be aware, I hear that permits can be VERY expensive in California. I assume this is because of their crazy property tax policies and they gotta get their dough somewhere(beyond high income taxes, of course!)
 
Thank you all for the valuable feedback. I had no idea you could get an adapter that would allow you to convert Tesla to X with a wall connector in place, hence I only considered the NEMA outlet for that reason as I wanted flexibility for my future non Tesla EV.

And you are absolutely correct regarding quote comparison between a NEMA installation + small sub panel (to mitigate nuisance tripping) + GFCI breaker versus the wall connector; they are almost the same. In that case, I’m now inclined towards the wall connector as this will give higher charge rate and more importantly nuisance tripping will hopefully be a non-issue.
Here is the adapter to go from Tesla to J1772
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09DCTJCTV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
Thanks guys, this has all been very helpful.

Am now going for the wall charger option instead of the NEMA outlet especially since adapters are available that permit charging from Tesla to a different EV. I was going to ask whether a permit / inspection is warranted, as one electrician told me "I can get it done if I want to, but it really is not needed". However, I am going to exercise this option and get it done to make sure all is well and as per code. I am surprised to see how expensive these inspections really are!

I had purchased the mobile connector with my original M3 order with the intent of using it in my garage, but now with the change to a wall connector as a home charging option, I thought about cancelling the mobile connector but probably wise to keep it in the car as a backup.
 
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I wanted to mention, for completeness sake, that you could also install a J1772 EVSE and use the provided J1772 to Tesla adapter. However, the Tesla wall connector is such a good buy at this point, that the price difference can pay for the adapter when and if you need it later.

I would also like to agree that the electricians who are telling you that a permit and inspection are not needed are almost certainly lying to you so they can low ball the bid.
 
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And is a 6 gauge wiring OK (for a Wall connector on a 60 amp circuit)? I see mixed messages on this forum regarding wire size and some insist that a 4 gauge should be done always; electrician states #6 is adequate. I am trying to future proof my setup to ensure I can safely charge two EVs in the future using the Wall connector.
 
And is a 6 gauge wiring OK (for a Wall connector on a 60 amp circuit)? I see mixed messages on this forum regarding wire size and some insist that a 4 gauge should be done always; electrician states #6 is adequate. I am trying to future proof my setup to ensure I can safely charge two EVs in the future using the Wall connector.
6 gauge is OK for a wall connector on a 60 amp circuit only IF its individual conductors in conduit. If its NMB(aka Romex) where there's no conduit involved, it is NOT okay for 60 amps(48 amps continuous), due to the 25% uprating of continuous loads like EV's. #6 NMB is only rated to 55 amps, and cutting that by 20% gets you 44 amps continuous usage allowed.
 
6 gauge is OK for a wall connector on a 60 amp circuit only IF its individual conductors in conduit. If its NMB(aka Romex) where there's no conduit involved, it is NOT okay for 60 amps(48 amps continuous), due to the 25% uprating of continuous loads like EV's. #6 NMB is only rated to 55 amps, and cutting that by 20% gets you 44 amps continuous usage allowed.
Agreed as long as we are talking about Copper conductors, and the HPWC requires them.
 
And is a 6 gauge wiring OK (for a Wall connector on a 60 amp circuit)? I see mixed messages on this forum regarding wire size
Right--because the terminology "6 gauge wiring" is not a complete description. So the actual answer depends on exactly what that 6 gauge stuff is. The answer really is yes or no, depending on what you're using. @Sophias_dad covered the detail, that it depends if it's bundled cable or if it's separates wires in conduit.
 
Right--because the terminology "6 gauge wiring" is not a complete description. So the actual answer depends on exactly what that 6 gauge stuff is. The answer really is yes or no, depending on what you're using. @Sophias_dad covered the detail, that it depends if it's bundled cable or if it's separates wires in conduit.
The wires will be passed through a conduit behind the drywall.
 
It sounds like you found some unusually informed electricians. I'm impressed that they knew about nuisance trips, GFCI's and were even willing to offer permitted work. Many electricians are just dumbfounded by the concept of gasoline flowing thru wires into a car and wouldn't dare let the government inspect their work.
The city will charge around $100 for a permit and your electrician will charge several hundred extra for the higher-standard work required. You can also get it permitted yourself behind the electrician's back. It's easy and worthwhile as it will prevent you from having to deal with the glaringly obvious un-permitted EV charger being cited when you sell the house. Every inspector knows to look for this as the very first thing nowadays.

#6 copper is the way to go and with it you can do a 60A circuit in conduit or 50A with Romex, your charger can use 80% of that.
If it's inside drywall, Romex might be considerably cheaper so you should consider the 50A option (40A charge rate) to save money. It'd still be plenty fast enough unless you're charging multiple cars each with very long commutes.

The wall charger is the best option as others have mentioned. And not only can you use adapters, but changing to a different wall charger in the future is not much harder than changing your porch light. Just flip the breaker and grab a Phillips.

Elon was right that no one uses the mobile charger. You might have a vacation home or something that compels you but generally it's easy enough to public charge near the vacation home. Get to know the car for a while first, and buy a mobile charger later if you find that road trips are too inconvenient. You will never need a mobile charger in a roadside emergency, only for convenience at remote vacation cabins and stuff.
 
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