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Electricians Charge too much

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My sparks insisted on sending me his spreadsheet when I queried the quote. He charged a fair profit for some of the parts but overall it was reasonable. The charge unit in particular (the main chunk of it) was less than the manufacturer sells direct, so swings & roundabouts.

I would not have been happy if it was an uncomplicated install, but it isn’t.

Don’t forget these guys have to fill in a load of forms and other crap that you don’t see.
 
Anyone with a very average brain and £3,000 can train and qualify to be an electrician in 3 months. So why, when he comes to my house, does he think that degree of education, training and ability justifies £500, £600, £700 and even £800 a day?

I don’t hate them because they charge up to £100 and hour, it is in the nature of man to get as much as he can, what I hate is that he BELIEVES that his minimum educational qualifications and few months of training justify charging that.

And that goes for plumbers too!


Anyone that feels this way should not bother with trying to engage anyone in these trades. Since its supposedly "so easy" they should just do it themselves, assuming they think they have the requisite ability that they state it takes to learn it.
 
In my case I need some electrics upgrading before the Charger is installed which helps them make it look complicated.

If the electrician’s quote started at the top with ‘Labour Charge . 1 day £800’ followed by a list of materials used, the true cost of those materials and a total minus £350 – I may take the view that £800 was more than he deserves for that job but I would not complain and would walk away. But . . the quotes don’t come like that they come as . . do this for £x then that for £xx etc., etc,. no explicit materials specs and not material costing - ‘smoke and mirrors’ and to get to what the labour charge is I have to identify the materials, cost them and deduct that from the total, I do all that, then I send it back to them asking “is this correct, is your labour charge really £800 for one short days work” and I don’t get a reply back. I think that can be fairly described as an attempt to ‘rip off’?

Haha... well I'm sure they spent an equal amount of time chewing over your comments on an online Trade Forum... 😁

In my experience, it's all Smoke and Mirrors from just about every job I've done in the past 20 years... they're experts at finding the shortcuts, for time & money.

But... I just get on with it now. I do everything DIY myself, all the prep, except the 'skilled' parts.

So I don't do...

- Solder plumbing
- Consumer Board electrics
- Gas
- Tiling
- Skilled Carpentry
- Window or Door installs
- Brick laying
- Slab laying / deep digging
- Ramp level car mechanics

Everything else... I'll give it a go myself
 
In my case I need some electrics upgrading before the Charger is installed which helps them make it look complicated.

If the electrician’s quote started at the top with ‘Labour Charge . 1 day £800’ followed by a list of materials used, the true cost of those materials and a total minus £350 – I may take the view that £800 was more than he deserves for that job but I would not complain and would walk away. But . . the quotes don’t come like that they come as . . do this for £x then that for £xx etc., etc,. no explicit materials specs and not material costing - ‘smoke and mirrors’ and to get to what the labour charge is I have to identify the materials, cost them and deduct that from the total, I do all that, then I send it back to them asking “is this correct, is your labour charge really £800 for one short days work” and I don’t get a reply back. I think that can be fairly described as an attempt to ‘rip off’?

In my emails to these people (all of them) I have said "am I (the customer) entitled to an explicit, clear and honest quote starting with the labour charge for the job?

Am I ?

Maybe its different in your country, but in California here in the US, all these two things do is identify you as "a problem customer" so anyone would quote you more because they dont actually want the job (evidenced by the lack of response you say you get when you send this out).

I am not in either of these professions myself (nor any of the material trades, I work in IT). I am not a fan of people looking down on others, though for their profession. Not liking the pricing, sure, ok thats fine. There is a lot more that goes into a job than the actual what you see billable stuff.

There is a cost for "the truck", insurance for it, the parts they carry, etc. A "Truck roll" costs a person / company a certain amount just for showing up, even if they dont do anything, in mileage to get there, depreciation and insurance on the truck, etc.

The customer will not know or care about any of that (and that is perfectly fine). We as customers are not supposed to care about the licensing and insurance costs the electrician / plumber etc needs to pay. THEY need to care about it though, and its all part of doing business that they need to account (and bill) for.

If you get 3 quotes and they are all similar, you can rest assured that is the going rate for it, regardless of whether you think its appropriate or not. If its not, do it yourself, and thats fine too, but then to start insulting people because... im not sure, other than a need to insult people.... shrug.
 
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I am not a fan of people looking down on others, though for their profession.
It's not a question of 'looking down' on any trade, it's about a fair price for a days work for that trade. I have lived a long life and lived and worked in many countries and in all those countries in all those cultures everyone employing a painter, carpenter, plasterer, brick layer, plumber, surgeon knows that the fair daily rate for the brick layer is a LOT less than it is for the surgeon. That is the way of the world. When I complain that the electrician is asking for the same daily rate as the surgeon it is because I and most other believe that a fair daily rate for the electrician is about £300 a day and for the surgeon about £1,000 a day. That is not 'looking down' on the electrician it's just the way the world works (IMO)..
 
It's not a question of 'looking down' on any trade, it's about a fair price for a days work for that trade. I have lived a long life and lived and worked in many countries and in all those countries in all those cultures everyone employing a painter, carpenter, plasterer, brick layer, plumber, surgeon knows that the fair daily rate for the brick layer is a LOT less than it is for the surgeon. That is the way of the world. When I complain that the electrician is asking for the same daily rate as the surgeon it is because I and most other believe that a fair daily rate for the electrician is about £300 a day and for the surgeon about £1,000 a day. That is not 'looking down' on the electrician it's just the way the world works (IMO)..

you specifically said:

Anyone with a very average brain and £3,000 can train and qualify to be an electrician in 3 months.

if thats not looking down on a profession, I dont know what is. You also seem to have picked some arbitrary number that you feel this work is worth. Thats fine, if its not worth it to you DO IT YOURSELF. dont come online and start talking about how people with average brains are worth XX.
 
I believe £300 is a fair days labour pay for an electrician in the UK. What do you think is a fair day labour charge?.

As I said in my first post, your "labor charge" doesnt account for all the things that it takes to run their business. You can find out whats a fair rate by getting 3 or 4 quotes. that will tell you what is a "fair charge" provided you dont start emailing them in the same manner you did previously.

You have no respect for them (which is evidenced again by your "average brain can do this in 3 months" comment). Since you dont respect them or what it takes to do, as many have said in this thread, since I would assume you think of yourself as having at least an "average brain" you should take the 3 months you say it takes to learn it then do it yourself.
 
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Anyone with a very average brain and £3,000 can train and qualify to be an electrician in 3 months. So why, when he comes to my house, does he think that degree of education, training and ability justifies £500, £600, £700 and even £800 a day?

I don’t hate them because they charge up to £100 and hour, it is in the nature of man to get as much as he can, what I hate is that he BELIEVES that his minimum educational qualifications and few months of training justify charging that.

And that goes for plumbers too!
Go ahead… install it yourself. See what happens.
 
In my US state of New Mexico, a master electrician has spent about 1.5 years full time in school, then accumulated 2000 hours of work experience for a residential cert or 4000 hours for a commercial cert, followed by a qualifying exam. So that probably stretches to four years for most.

An engineer also spends about 4 years in University, and I suspect is typically paid less than an electrician. That seems odd at first blush, but there are a couple important differences:

  • The engineer will typically have a reliable income, nice working conditions, and benefits.
  • The engineer has almost nil risk of injury
  • The engineer has no self-employed overhead.
Just an observation: the 'going rate' for a human service is what the market allows, but that is a supply:demand function that in the case of the trades is mostly set by supply. So why are tradespeople in relatively short supply ? Strictly labor is poorly paid because supply is ample. Strictly brainy is relatively poorly paid because demand is low. People with reasonable brainpower *and* who are willing to work in adverse/dangerous environments are in short supply.
 
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I havent watched it, but by the title its germane to the exact discussion at hand, so I dont see a problem with it.
I've watched it and what he says is, after first identifying what you need to charge to make a decent profit, then up that charge because the psychology of the customer is that he feels that the more you charge the better job he will get AND then check out the competition and charge a bit more because you are a bit better. . . . . . . It all makes sense now. . . . if all electricians are basing their charges on this model it must keep climbing.

AND . . . does this also apply to the gardener, tiler. plasterer, plumber. brick layer etc., etc ??
 
It's not a question of 'looking down' on any trade, it's about a fair price for a days work for that trade. I have lived a long life and lived and worked in many countries and in all those countries in all those cultures everyone employing a painter, carpenter, plasterer, brick layer, plumber, surgeon knows that the fair daily rate for the brick layer is a LOT less than it is for the surgeon. That is the way of the world. When I complain that the electrician is asking for the same daily rate as the surgeon it is because I and most other believe that a fair daily rate for the electrician is about £300 a day and for the surgeon about £1,000 a day. That is not 'looking down' on the electrician it's just the way the world works (IMO)..
That's what I did. ~8 years ago. Saved >$15k between all the work I did. Everything is still working great... :) DIY... never have 3 letters saved so much $$$ :cool:
Good for you man, let’s see if “above average intelligence “ guy can swing it… what can happen? It’s not like if he does it wrong his house will burn down or anything. Oh wait…
 
Good for you man, let’s see if “above average intelligence “ guy can swing it… what can happen? It’s not like if he does it wrong his house will burn down or anything. Oh wait…

You don't need to be that smart to read a wire ampacity chart. To be honest the DIY work I've seen on average is better than the professional work I've seen.

You're far more likely to burn the house down cooking dinner. Should we all hire professional chefs or eat out?