Am I mis remembering the fact that you install solar systems and the associated electrical connections for a living? If not, how would you react if someone contacted you for a quote, then they questioned your charge because they said you were not worth the labor charge you were charging, because anyone with an "average brain and 3 months" could do what you do (which is exactly what this OP said in this thread).
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Electricians Charge too much
- Thread starter Forty_Two
- Start date
Am I mis remembering the fact that you install solar systems and the associated electrical connections for a living? If not, how would you react if someone contacted you for a quote, then they questioned your charge because they said you were not worth the labor charge you were charging, because anyone with an "average brain and 3 months" could do what you do (which is exactly what this OP said in this thread).
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I do employ electricians. And one of the reasons I started this company was because of the absurd price that was being charged. We install solar for ~$2.70/w. Most of the others around here are ~$4 some even $5/w. I'm trying to be the change we need.....
Yeah.... totally agree.... most electrician rates are beyond absurd.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
.... close to 100% margins even at $2.70/w. As has been said... electricians charge absolutely insane rates.
Optimistic take.
You should think about the type of person you sound like. I would charge you double my average rate and be happy not to do business with you.
Let me guess what you do for a living, add numbers? Pfft. Kindergartens can do that.
You get to drive around in a Tesla and they don’t because you’ve decided they aren’t worth it.
The world apparently doesn’t work the way you think it does. But the real question is if you are smart, they are dumb, and electricians are simple minded people who deserve just the bare minimum in compensation, why aren’t you doing for yourself?
I have my doubts. I would never want to compete on price. But I understand why the “professional work you’ve seen is worse that the DIY work youve seen”
That’s the experience your gonna have when you hire dirt cheap electricians to work for your business. We shouldn’t be shocked when they do dirt work “worse than diy”. Yikes.
The price king lol.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Not my guys. My guys are top notch. But lots of other shoddy work. My favorite was repairing a solar project a friend had installed for ~$6/w a few years back by another company. They installed a 15A fuse in a 16A circuit (that didn't even require a fuse per the NEC). Company made multiple 10 hour round trip drives to replace a fuse that didn't need to be there before giving up... system was down for months before I helped her fixed it. PSA: Buy local.
OR a more recent example from Empire Solar Group that charges $5.50/w was a system lacking a production meter (required by Xcel). Poor guy has been paying ~$200/mo since March on a loan for a system that can't be given PTO installed by a company that somehow managed to go bankrupt charging $5.50/w. PSA: Buy local.
We charge half what this guy paid and the stickers we attach aren't crooked.... and the systems actually qualify for PTO.... seriously.... how does this happen? Paying more does not increase your probability of higher quality work.....
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Are you expressing skepticism ? If so it is misplaced, Chris knows exactly what he is talking about and he tells it straight.
But realize that 'margin' is only part of the overall profit story, and in the case of a PV company, the smaller part.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
To the AC disconnect. It's just missing a production meter. Which I'm assuming is connected to the distribution panel inside the wall but I didn't open anything to check.
airborne spoon
Active Member
you might be getting high quotes because by the tone of your email they get the vibe that you're going to be a difficult customer thus the price goes up. *sugar* I've done it to people. A friend needed my help wiring up his house with CAT 6 for his whole house i did it for a few bucks and lunch. A couple months later a friend of his (that i don't know) calls and asks if i could do a similar job at his house but he doesn't want to help he wants me to do it myself so i tell him i can do it but it'll cost him $750/day and it'll prob take me a few days since doing it alone takes a lot longer and help really speeds *sugar* up. He was adamant on not helping and was furious that I'd charge so much when i did the same job for so little when i helped my other friend. I ended up doing the job for him because he was willing to pay which told me i shoulda asked for more because i didn't wanna do the job since he was an ass so i said such a high price.
I'm not an electrician but i know the NEC (national electric code) and i know networking and i was originally just helping a friend because i had some free time. *sugar* I'm a damn cook FFS i just have hobbies.
I'm not an electrician but i know the NEC (national electric code) and i know networking and i was originally just helping a friend because i had some free time. *sugar* I'm a damn cook FFS i just have hobbies.
I'm no electrician, but I'm genuinely curious what else goes into selecting wire gauge other than the load?
Most around-the-home electric seems to be simple enough for people who can read instructions and exercise patience, but there is real danger when the cost of hiring a professional leads over-ambitious DIYers to do a sloppy job on their own. We're doing a renovation right now and my contractor has found multiple places where a previous owner has done stupid things like leaving open wires in the wall, using wire nuts instead of junction boxes, and using painters tape on wires. I'd punch the PO in the face if I ever met him.
On one hand you've got people who want things done at a low cost, and on the other you have professionals who bear large costs of doing business including heavy burdens for insurance (thank you lawsuit zealots) and regulation (thank you politicians who know more than professionals).
That’s not what I meant by “there’s more to it” there is more to electrical work than picking the right wire gauge. But to answer your question, derailing and voltage drop calculations also factor in selecting wire gauge.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Potentially ?
Distance
Ambient Temp
Sustained operation
That is just the wire. Other considerations are
Insulation type
Insulation color
Torques
Grounding
Inside Vs Outside
Ground fault protection
Arc fault protection
Raceway choice
FloridaSun
Member
It's not just electricians.. Here in the US virtually everyone offering services in home repair or home improvement charges huge rates..
I'm a Landlord and have multiple rentals. I flipped homes and kept others as rentals. I did 90% of al remodeling work myself, including plumbing, electrical, framing, drywall, tiling, kitchens, bathrooms etc.. You name it, I did it.
I did full rehabs of 4 bedroom homes for $25k for materials and that included new AC, new kitchen with granite counter tops, 2 bathrooms with very nice vanities and tile work etc.. If I paid contractors/electricians/plumbers for that, the rehab would have cost me over $100k..
Installed my 14-50 outlet for $50 for materials..
roblab
Active Member
I've found it's well worth the time to learn how to do some basic wiring and plumbing. I have done all of my electrical wiring in a new house and now my new garage plus a partial re-do of my house, which our county allows for owners. Yes, I've saved hundreds, and though I am considered to be somewhat more intelligent than some, I don't need to know how to do much more than wire a few outlets and put them on a circuit. That said, it's good to know when you're over your head and can hire someone to come out to do the work, though I haven't hired anyone for years. I've wired and plumbed two new houses and my own warehouse in my day, but would not do so now, simply because it's a bunch of work, but it's good to have the knowledge when you're troubleshooting.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I endorse this approach to life, but it seems fair to point out that there is a gap between 'good enough to work now' and 'will work safely for decades and be code compliant.' The NEC has a lot of builit in safety margin and good practice that should not be ignored.
There is a lot of apprentice level work in residential that is charged at master electrician rates. Part of that is excused by oversight, but part of it is guild economics. It is a grey area that varies by local jurisdiction, but in general I would say that there is room for some granularity.
My state has in my opinion a peculiar approach: Homeowners can do whatever the hell they want to their own homes, but fee for service for any electrical work requires a journeyman license and an electrician contractor license that can require 8000 hours of supervised experience. For many electricians, this works out to 6 - 12 years of wages labor before an independent business can be opened to say, install a light fixture, or to swap out an old receptacle.
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