LLWS
Member
Whatever you do, make sure you pull wire thick enough for 100A service through that conduit. You'd hate to have to redo anything related to this trench in the future!
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Alright, FINAL UPDATE!! WOOOO
My NEMA 14-50 outlet, pumping sweet sweet power
My trench was mostly good enough, the ele had to jack hammer out a few spots to level up to code for the area, but otherwise no complaints for my sweat and tears.
There are a few junction boxes for bends, but I don't care... I just want my power.
Routes into the garage and up and over toward where I park my car
Charge baby charge!
And of course, no illegal conduit.
A saga ends.:love:
My NEMA 14-50 outlet, pumping sweet sweet power
My trench was mostly good enough, the ele had to jack hammer out a few spots to level up to code for the area, but otherwise no complaints for my sweat and tears.
There are a few junction boxes for bends, but I don't care... I just want my power.
Routes into the garage and up and over toward where I park my car
Charge baby charge!
And of course, no illegal conduit.
A saga ends.:love:
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Congratulations on all of your hard work! Looks great!
What is that box on the roof of your car?
What is that box on the roof of your car?
@Cosmacelf
No I did not, I offered it as "hey I'd like to do this what do you think" and the ele said it probably wasnt needed, and I took it at that. He ran one line for all the 120v stuff (lights and garage door) and one line for the NEMA. The conduit is massive, and could easily run more power through if needed in the future... Long run it probably would have been better to force the issue, but at this point I just wanted to charge my damn car :crying:
@mspohr
Its the garage door opener's reflection on my shiny clean car (thanks service center!)
No I did not, I offered it as "hey I'd like to do this what do you think" and the ele said it probably wasnt needed, and I took it at that. He ran one line for all the 120v stuff (lights and garage door) and one line for the NEMA. The conduit is massive, and could easily run more power through if needed in the future... Long run it probably would have been better to force the issue, but at this point I just wanted to charge my damn car :crying:
@mspohr
Its the garage door opener's reflection on my shiny clean car (thanks service center!)
I was trying to figure out that box on the car for a few seconds, too, and then realized it was the door opener.
Unfortunately, it's an illegal install. 225.30: "A building or other structure that is served by a branch circuit or feeder on the load side of a service disconnecting means shall be supplied by only one feeder or branch circuit unless permitted in 225.30(A) through (E)." (A) through (E) list special conditions such as power requirements greater than 2000 amps, documented safe switching procedures, different secondary transformer voltages, etc.
You might be able to con an inspector into letting you use 225.30(D), where it is stated that "Additional feeders or branch circuits shall be permitted for different voltages, frequencies, or phases or for different uses, such as control of outside lighting from multiple locations." I tried it once and the AHJ didn't agree, because it wasn't a different secondary voltage. However, even if you do that, you probably still fall afoul of the disconnect requirement of 225.31/225.32, which requires a means of disconnect at the building. 225.31/225.32 require that your detached garage have an accessible disconnect as near to the point of entry into the building as possible.
The reason you'll likely want a subpanel is that if you require a disconnect anyway, you may as well just run a single feeder and put a subpanel in there. You could get away with a 60A disconnect for the NEMA 14-50 and a simple snap-switch (listed for disconnect), but at that point you may as well just look at a subpanel.
Your electrician never said anything about a disconnect or a subpanel requirement? This is kinda basic stuff.
Hm, very interesting. No he didn't, but of course I wasn't able to cite code to conversate the matter further. Indeed it might fall under the 225.30(D) definition as you have quoted it, but I guess it depends on the inspector. The 20a is on a separate breaker from the 40a, and both are strung through to the dwelling and then they split off to their final destinations. I will call him and ask if we're in violation of 225.30. My MAIN concern is insurance coverage on a catastrophe. When I buried the cable I laid red aluminum caution tape over the trenches about 2 inches into the fill. I feel that's all I can do from a precaution standpoint for any future owners, or myself if I randomly forget.
I'll post an update later.
Do you have a disconnect on or in that building for the circuits in that building? You should ask that too. There was a period of time when the rules were different about disconnect requirements, but they've been pretty solid since 2005ish. Since you just re-did the feeder to the building you would need to work with today's code (so 225.31/225.32 as well should be asked).
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I wonder if this would qualify as a sub-panel?
GE 70 Amp 2-Space 2-Circuit 240 Volt Unmetered RV Outlet Box with 50 Amp and 20 Amp GCFI Circuit Protected Receptacles-GE1LU502SS - The Home Depot
That would qualify as a disconnect, although an inspector may raise an issue with it on 225.32, which requires the disconnect to be located as close to the circuit or feeder's entry into the building as possible. So it qualifies for 225.31 but may not for 225.32.
I think it should be pretty obvious where the conduit is, given that is comes out of the ground on either end. If someone is so clueless as to dig without first considering where that conduit goes, it's on them.
-Mark
Totally agree, but life has taught me (thus far) that not everyone is as smart as we give them credit for ... anyway it was only like 5 bucks!
deonb
Active Member
Totally agree, but life has taught me (thus far) that not everyone is as smart as we give them credit for ... anyway it was only like 5 bucks!
I bet there is a large overlap between the people who will ignore the fact that there is a conduit going into the ground, and the people who will ignore aluminum caution tape that they encounter while digging/trenching...
davewill
Active Member
As long as it was properly permitted and inspected, you should be able to rest easy on that score. If the inspector passed it, it's on the city/county's head if it's wrong. Had it been my install, I would have wanted a 60 or 80a feeder and a subpanel. Leaves room for changing or adding circuits in the future. Also nice not to have to trudge back to the house to access the breaker.
@deonb
You're probably 100% correct
@davewill
Based on what has been identified by FlasherZ, i am probably not to code due to the double cable run in same conduit. There is some potential wiggle room for dissimilar voltage, mainly my 240v is very obviously not my 120v by size and usage. Even if they passed me there, I might be in trouble with no cutoff near the point of entry (this is probably an easy fix for me to do). I am exploring my options to "ensure my insure", including taking a walk to talk to my local city engineer, whom I have a history with (retention wall ingress ). This is lower on my list of priorities at the moment, but will get done.
You're probably 100% correct
@davewill
Based on what has been identified by FlasherZ, i am probably not to code due to the double cable run in same conduit. There is some potential wiggle room for dissimilar voltage, mainly my 240v is very obviously not my 120v by size and usage. Even if they passed me there, I might be in trouble with no cutoff near the point of entry (this is probably an easy fix for me to do). I am exploring my options to "ensure my insure", including taking a walk to talk to my local city engineer, whom I have a history with (retention wall ingress
). This is lower on my list of priorities at the moment, but will get done.
davewill
Active Member
I understood all that. My point was that so long as a permit was gotten and the inspection was passed, your responsibility for code compliance is satisfied. Your insurance would have to pay.@davewill
Based on what has been identified by FlasherZ, i am probably not to code due to the double cable run in same conduit. There is some potential wiggle room for dissimilar voltage, mainly my 240v is very obviously not my 120v by size and usage. Even if they passed me there, I might be in trouble with no cutoff near the point of entry (this is probably an easy fix for me to do). I am exploring my options to "ensure my insure", including taking a walk to talk to my local city engineer, whom I have a history with (retention wall ingress
Similar threads
- Question
