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Electricians dodging my calls, can I do this myself? (14-50 install)

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Based on what has been identified by FlasherZ, i am probably not to code due to the double cable run in same conduit. There is some potential wiggle room for dissimilar voltage, mainly my 240v is very obviously not my 120v by size and usage. Even if they passed me there, I might be in trouble with no cutoff near the point of entry (this is probably an easy fix for me to do). I am exploring my options to "ensure my insure", including taking a walk to talk to my local city engineer, whom I have a history with (retention wall ingress :( ). This is lower on my list of priorities at the moment, but will get done.

You also have a little bit of wiggle room here too... If they placed #6 NM cable in the conduit, then it's good for 55A as a feeder. You could put a 60A breaker in the house protecting those 55A conductors (240.4 next-size-up rule). Use that NM as a feeder to a small subpanel in the garage. Because you'll have less than 6 circuits, you won't need a main breaker out there. Your 40A charging load (x 125% for continuous load rules) will be 50A, and you'll have 5A left in your load calculations for general & lighting (which would cover 800 sq ft @ 3 VA per sq ft @ 120V). You'll have 2 circuits in that subpanel - a 50A double-pole using the remainder of the NM run to the receptacle for car-charging and a 15 or 20 amp single-pole (depending upon the wiring to 120V loads).

Another option: many times #6 NM cable has individual conductors inside that are rated/listed THHN/THWN. Take a look at the individual conductors in your receptacle box -- if they're marked separately as THWN, then they can be used as wire-in-conduit independently. You could pull out the NM cable, strip off the outer jacket (CAREFULLY, don't nick the insulation), and then pull the individual conductors back into the conduit -- this would make them good to 65A. Protect with 70A breaker inside the house and you'll have 15A headroom above your charging load. Or you could just pull new individual #6 conductors, but then you're left with a bunch of #6 NM cable that's unused.

(It seems stupid that if you take the outer jacket off it's legal for 10 more amps, but that's a perennial argument in the code-writing circles -- should NM cable still be forced to the 60 degC column?)
 
You also have a little bit of wiggle room here too... If they placed #6 NM cable in the conduit, then it's good for 55A as a feeder. You could put a 60A breaker in the house protecting those 55A conductors (240.4 next-size-up rule). Use that NM as a feeder to a small subpanel in the garage. Because you'll have less than 6 circuits, you won't need a main breaker out there. Your 40A charging load (x 125% for continuous load rules) will be 50A, and you'll have 5A left in your load calculations for general & lighting (which would cover 800 sq ft @ 3 VA per sq ft @ 120V). You'll have 2 circuits in that subpanel - a 50A double-pole using the remainder of the NM run to the receptacle for car-charging and a 15 or 20 amp single-pole (depending upon the wiring to 120V loads).

Another option: many times #6 NM cable has individual conductors inside that are rated/listed THHN/THWN. Take a look at the individual conductors in your receptacle box -- if they're marked separately as THWN, then they can be used as wire-in-conduit independently. You could pull out the NM cable, strip off the outer jacket (CAREFULLY, don't nick the insulation), and then pull the individual conductors back into the conduit -- this would make them good to 65A. Protect with 70A breaker inside the house and you'll have 15A headroom above your charging load. Or you could just pull new individual #6 conductors, but then you're left with a bunch of #6 NM cable that's unused.

(It seems stupid that if you take the outer jacket off it's legal for 10 more amps, but that's a perennial argument in the code-writing circles -- should NM cable still be forced to the 60 degC column?)


Ok, noted in addition to our other conversation. What's actually going to happen in the meantime is I'm going to find out why we did this the way we did :) (oy!)
 
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Update!

I talked to the city engineer AND my ele yesterday...

Ele: We're to code, per previous "arguments" with inspectors, this way is OK for our AHJ (all previous cited NEC's in the thread). I also laid out all my concerns about disconnects locally and he said we can add one if I'd like... so I'm going to do that.

Eng: (I showed him all the pictures and described all my NEC concerns) I'm to code depending on the mood of the inspector, but to get it inspected would mean I'd need to rip out everything, get a permit and approval, then put it all back in... I'm not doing that

Long story short, I'm good. With an added fuse disconnect in the garage, I'll sleep a little better. And always have a full charge when I wake up :)
 
Ele: We're to code, per previous "arguments" with inspectors, this way is OK for our AHJ (all previous cited NEC's in the thread). I also laid out all my concerns about disconnects locally and he said we can add one if I'd like... so I'm going to do that.

Eng: (I showed him all the pictures and described all my NEC concerns) I'm to code depending on the mood of the inspector, but to get it inspected would mean I'd need to rip out everything, get a permit and approval, then put it all back in... I'm not doing that

You have very friendly inspectors. Count your blessings. With the focus in 2005/2008 NEC on outbuilding electrical safety, nearly every inspector I've dealt with here has looked hyper-critically at those requirements, especially ensuring 4-wire feeds to outbuildings, single circuit-or-feeder only, and the disconnect on or in the building at wire entrance. :)

Note that you wouldn't have to rip everything out and put it back in, but you would have to open everything up for the rough inspection. That would mean exposing most of the conduit angles and bends (you'd probably be ok with leaving straight sections covered). Still a pain in the ass.

Now, a word of caution: if a permit is generally required in your area, and you didn't get one, you still can be liable. I think you've done things safely based on what you've told us. When you sell the house the home inspector may go looking for the improvement records, and they might create a contingency that it be inspected at that time for proper workmanship. I definitely agree with putting disconnects in at your garage - right now as it stands, you aren't compliant with 225.31/32 even if your inspector allows you to ignore it.

Glad all is settled!
 
Last edited:
Update!

I talked to the city engineer AND my ele yesterday...

Ele: We're to code, per previous "arguments" with inspectors, this way is OK for our AHJ (all previous cited NEC's in the thread). I also laid out all my concerns about disconnects locally and he said we can add one if I'd like... so I'm going to do that.

Eng: (I showed him all the pictures and described all my NEC concerns) I'm to code depending on the mood of the inspector, but to get it inspected would mean I'd need to rip out everything, get a permit and approval, then put it all back in... I'm not doing that

Long story short, I'm good. With an added fuse disconnect in the garage, I'll sleep a little better. And always have a full charge when I wake up :)

I'd recommend this box for a disconnect in your garage. Nice unit with circuit breakers and sockets installed:
GE 70 Amp 2-Space 2-Circuit 240 Volt Unmetered RV Outlet Box with 50 Amp and 20 Amp GCFI Circuit Protected Receptacles-GE1LU502SS - The Home Depot
 
I'd recommend this box for a disconnect in your garage. Nice unit with circuit breakers and sockets installed:
GE 70 Amp 2-Space 2-Circuit 240 Volt Unmetered RV Outlet Box with 50 Amp and 20 Amp GCFI Circuit Protected Receptacles-GE1LU502SS - The Home Depot

The problem with that is that it usually fails 225.32, which requires the disconnect to be as close as possible to the point where the conductors enter the building; that or the 50A receptacle becomes impractical. It does work in a few cases, though, where your entrance conduit is where you need the charging.

In the FAQ I recommend using a GE TL412CP for these small applications; it's very compact (roughly 1 sq ft), 4-space and is rated for 6 circuits. That's good for a dual-pole 50A breaker and up to 4 half-inch GE slim breakers for 120V loads. You don't need a main breaker because it's less than 6 handle throws to cut power, and the over-current protection should be upstream in your service panel.
 
The problem with that is that it usually fails 225.32, which requires the disconnect to be as close as possible to the point where the conductors enter the building; that or the 50A receptacle becomes impractical. It does work in a few cases, though, where your entrance conduit is where you need the charging.

In the FAQ I recommend using a GE TL412CP for these small applications; it's very compact (roughly 1 sq ft), 4-space and is rated for 6 circuits. That's good for a dual-pole 50A breaker and up to 4 half-inch GE slim breakers for 120V loads. You don't need a main breaker because it's less than 6 handle throws to cut power, and the over-current protection should be upstream in your service panel.
I believe that in this installation, the power socket is located where the conductors enter the building. This unit would also serve as a disconnect next to the socket for use when plugging and unplugging.
 
I believe that in this installation, the power socket is located where the conductors enter the building. This unit would also serve as a disconnect next to the socket for use when plugging and unplugging.

In this case, it enters on the far wall, and is routed to its connecting wall for the outlet. Say, west wall entrance, North wall outlet. There is room for a disconnect at the entrance, but a disconnect at the outlet would put it 10 or so feet away from the entrance.
 
In this case, it enters on the far wall, and is routed to its connecting wall for the outlet. Say, west wall entrance, North wall outlet. There is room for a disconnect at the entrance, but a disconnect at the outlet would put it 10 or so feet away from the entrance.

You might be able to get away with it, although inspectors typically want it +/- 3 feet laterally from where it enters, either NEMA 3R external or a proper install indoors.