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Electricity Bill - Ontario

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Unfortunately one can only have one MicroFIT system in ones name and I already have one. For reasons based more on principle than financial, I would like to do a second solar array (at a different location) to charge my car from the sun. I now realize it may be financially better to do net metering at a seasonal place.

Just a word of caution that in Ontario, Net metering can only be used to offset your normal consumption down to zero. You won't be paid for any excess generation. You can carry a credit balance on your account month over month, but any credit is wiped out on each anniversary of the net metered account being set up.

Not sure if the microFIT rules allow it, or if it's even possible in your situation, but if you can, it might be better to build on to your existing solar system.
 
- the biggest consumer of power in my house was the furnace fan!

I'll bet it's not the furnace fan any more :wink:

Here's a fun fact: I also separately meter my electric water heater and have determined that if I drove my Model S 20,000 km a year, it would use almost exactly the same amount of power as the water heater. I actually drive more than that, but when people ask me how much power the car uses and I tell them this, it is a real eye opener.
 
Just a word of caution that in Ontario, Net metering can only be used to offset your normal consumption down to zero. You won't be paid for any excess generation. You can carry a credit balance on your account month over month, but any credit is wiped out on each anniversary of the net metered account being set up.

Good to know as I was potentially going to put in a separate meter for the new solar panels but if I am producing more power than consuming I would never recoup the funds.

Not sure if the microFIT rules allow it, or if it's even possible in your situation, but if you can, it might be better to build on to your existing solar system.

Once microFit contract signed you can't change anything or else you have to break the contract and reapply and the rate they pay has gone down since I signed.

Mike, how much electricity did your hot water heater use for the year?
 
Ours uses 500W and the HVAC contractor recommended running it 24/7 which I did for a while... Once I figured out it was using 12kWh per day (increasing my usage roughly 50%) I set it to run only when the furnace is on! FWIW the furance is only 2 years old.

I'll bet it's not the furnace fan any more :wink:

Here's a fun fact: I also separately meter my electric water heater and have determined that if I drove my Model S 20,000 km a year, it would use almost exactly the same amount of power as the water heater. I actually drive more than that, but when people ask me how much power the car uses and I tell them this, it is a real eye opener.
 
Mike, how much electricity did your hot water heater use for the year?

I just pulled the logs for the last 12 consecutive months on my water heater and I used 4,559 kWh. I did my water heater / Model S comparison last summer when my car was averaging a bit better efficiency wise. When I look at my current Model S efficiency taking into account this past very cold winter, it's closer to 14,000 km than 20,000 km now. Still not bad, but on the other hand, that's a lot of money to heat water! Not easy to retrofit a gas tank in due to the location in my house.

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Ours uses 500W and the HVAC contractor recommended running it 24/7 which I did for a while... Once I figured out it was using 12kWh per day (increasing my usage roughly 50%) I set it to run only when the furnace is on! FWIW the furance is only 2 years old.

Yep. Mine is 500 to 600 watts as well. I may look into a higher efficiency variable speed drive motor.
 
I just pulled the logs for the last 12 consecutive months on my water heater and I used 4,559 kWh. I did my water heater / Model S comparison last summer when my car was averaging a bit better efficiency wise. When I look at my current Model S efficiency taking into account this past very cold winter, it's closer to 14,000 km than 20,000 km now. Still not bad, but on the other hand, that's a lot of money to heat water! Not easy to retrofit a gas tank in due to the location in my house.

Have you considered a Heat Pump Water Heater? It has to pump heat from somewhere, so in winter, you have to consider the source of space (air) heat where the hot water is located for overall efficiency.
 
Have you considered a Heat Pump Water Heater? It has to pump heat from somewhere, so in winter, you have to consider the source of space (air) heat where the hot water is located for overall efficiency.

Thanks for the tip. I was aware of Heat Pump water heaters that utilized outside air, but not self-contained or retrofit styles as mentioned in your link. My primary motivation is cost, so I would have to look at how expensive these things are and what the payback period would be.

One thing I can see from my energy logs is that the WH uses a lot more power in the winter when the ground water is a lot colder. I would also like to install some heat recovery wrap on my copper drain pipes, but my drains are at the opposite end of the basement from the water heater.

Solar water heating systems were big here a few years ago. The theory was it is more efficient to heat the water directly from the sun rather than use PV panels to generate electricity, then use the electricity to heat water.
 
Similar to your water heater.. Among other things, I got rid of the outdoor hot tub and took the 50amp line 30 feet into the garage for the new Tesla, and looking year-over-year and after three months I estimated the car consumed about the same as the tub on average, and that's with 2,000 miles a month ! Many people can 100% offset the car with some e-efficiency and smart upgrades. The car got me focusing on some details I had basically been ignoring. In my view, Tesla could consider leveraging and aligning with the whole electric picture, and not just panels from Solar City...
 
Hi, Duckjybe. Check out my site for more info. Net Metering and Microfit Solar in Ontario putting systems on all roofs.
we don't install that far from O.S. We calculate hydro cost at .22 cents all in. Net metering now yields a 10% payback. You can have a total of 10 kW installed on a property. Micro and net systems together. Hope this helps, Greg
... and if someone could tell me how to update my signature that would be great. I have driven 36,000 Kms on my waiting for delivery... Thanks!
 
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Read this thread. Have you resolved why your hydro consumption has increased so much? I am considering the car depending on the savings for energy. Your thread has me wondering if there actually is a savings. The thread didn't seem resolve your concerns obsevations.
 
Hello all, long story short, I've been fairly busy these last few weeks. Haven't really done anything. I will probably wait for the next bill to see if the warmer temp makes a difference. I know there are many factors that affect the charge, cold weather being one of them. If I average the cost per day, it's about $5/day which isn't that bad, considering I use to pay about $100 per week on premium fuel. For a car of this calibre, I'd probably be paying about $120-30/week. So $35 per week (more driving on the weekends), it's really not that bad.

I have changed the way I charge now....since I come home after 7 pm (non-peak hours), I charge it right away while the battery is still warm. I want to see if this makes a difference.

I may also ask PowerStream to see if I can put some temp meter on my HPWC unit to see if I can measure the actual kw usage.

Also - like to say thanks to mknox - for the additional information on delivery costs, etc.....the .079 cents is really not the "real" value...with all the additional charges.

Ok...keep all posted.

e4
 
Read this thread. Have you resolved why your hydro consumption has increased so much? I am considering the car depending on the savings for energy. Your thread has me wondering if there actually is a savings. The thread didn't seem resolve your concerns obsevations.

There are big time energy savings. I spend around $80 to $100 a month on electricity compared to my past car (Cadillac CTS) that cost me about $80 every 4 days in gasoline driving the same distances. I calculated that I saved about $5,000 in energy over my first year of Model S ownership, but I do drive a lot.
 
Hello all, long story short, I've been fairly busy these last few weeks. Haven't really done anything. I will probably wait for the next bill to see if the warmer temp makes a difference.

I just went through my second winter, and from first-hand experience warmer temps make an enormous difference.

What most people don't realize is winter temperatures make a rather big difference with ICE cars too. They just don't realize it because they don't track it.
 
I just went through my second winter, and from first-hand experience warmer temps make an enormous difference.

What most people don't realize is winter temperatures make a rather big difference with ICE cars too. They just don't realize it because they don't track it.

I agree. The full tank of my 2012 Tiguan (2.0L/turbo engine) used to last for 560-600km during warm seasons, while it lasted only for 400-430km during winter. I used to have a habit of resetting the trip counter every time I fill it up.
 
Read this thread. Have you resolved why your hydro consumption has increased so much? I am considering the car depending on the savings for energy. Your thread has me wondering if there actually is a savings. The thread didn't seem resolve your concerns obsevations.

Of course there is savings. No one is debating that, just the degree of savings. People say all kinds of crazy things like the Model S costs 1/10 or 1/6 of what an ICE costs. Sure maybe if you're comparing it to the most obscene gas guzzlers.

Anyways, I was complaining that my Model S was using a lot of electricity. It's averaged to 100$/month over Jan-March this year. I average 1862km in my Model S each month. Driving the same distance in an ICE that gets 10L/100km would cost 260$. So there are definitely savings. (And this is coming from someone who has the 6th worst Wh/km lifetime average in their car as reported on these forums.)
 
There are big time energy savings. I spend around $80 to $100 a month on electricity compared to my past car (Cadillac CTS) that cost me about $80 every 4 days in gasoline driving the same distances. I calculated that I saved about $5,000 in energy over my first year of Model S ownership, but I do drive a lot.

Yes, that's what i was looking at in the GMC Yukon 6.0L. 14.5 mpg over the 205K miles in ten years, at 3.50/gal was something like $5,300 in 2014 gas. Then the 60K sticker on a new one, and ran away from that. And in the first few months of charging the Model S I found about a 20% difference in the theoretical kWh and what I saw on the power bill. Too many variables to be certain, but wire and vampire losses would account for that. $80 electric versus $450 in gas for me.
 
I just went through my second winter, and from first-hand experience warmer temps make an enormous difference.

What most people don't realize is winter temperatures make a rather big difference with ICE cars too. They just don't realize it because they don't track it.

I track my wife's Prius and in the winter she gets about 35 MPG compared to 45 MPG in the summer or a 25% hit. So yes ICE cars do do worse in cold weather but my Roadster takes a worse hit as that cabin heat can really burn miles over 30% less miles on cold days.
 
I track my wife's Prius and in the winter she gets about 35 MPG compared to 45 MPG in the summer or a 25% hit. So yes ICE cars do do worse in cold weather but my Roadster takes a worse hit as that cabin heat can really burn miles over 30% less miles on cold days.

Roadster is worse than Model S, because it doesn't have a heat pump. Once the drive train is warmed up in a Model S the additional load from the cabin heater is quite modest.