Electricity Cost per Charge/Toronto

[Luclyluciano]

Hi Everyone. I am close to placing an order when I read a disturbing thread in the other Tesla forum where and new owner of a P85D stated it costs him more to run his D per mile than is costs him to run his Corvette.

Can someone from the GTA area clarify this for me? One of the considerations in buying the car for me is the cost of energy to run it. I was told repeatedly by Tesla sales that the cost to charge was $7/400 km range. What was posted on the other website is completely off the charts. Granted his calculating cost is .31 cents/kwh and very high but I don't understand how it could be cheaper to run a Corvette on gasoline.

 

[mrElbe]

Hi Everyone. I am close to placing an order when I read a disturbing thread in the other Tesla forum where and new owner of a P85D stated it costs him more to run his D per mile than is costs him to run his Corvette.

Can someone from the GTA area clarify this for me? One of the considerations in buying the car for me is the cost of energy to run it. I was told repeatedly by Tesla sales that the cost to charge was $7/400 km range. What was posted on the other website is completely off the charts. Granted his calculating cost is .31 cents/kwh and very high but I don't understand how it could be cheaper to run a Corvette on gasoline.

My rough calculation comes up with about CAD$ 13.00 per "tank full". Now, a Corvette has a 70 litre tank and filling that with high octane gas at a current price of CAD$ 1.02 /l = $ 61.00 ( assuming 10 litres were still in it ). Also the Corvette needs occasional oil changes, transmission service, air filters, spark plug changes, etc.

The calculations are based on the following:

Ontario Hydro real rate of 18.5 cents / Kwh ( including all the extra charges like transmission loss, debt retirement, etc. )
Charging at HPWC at 80 Amps with dual chargers for 4 hours.

Once I get my P85D, I can give you an exact cost because I installed an auxiliary meter into the HPWC line to measure the Tesla charging consumption.

 

[Terapin]

I just pulled out my Veridian bill (my electricity provider in Pickering) and I paid between 7.5c and 14c a kWh. On average I paid 9.2c a kWh. Added to that I paid an additional 60-70% debt retirement, delivery, and other charges. Over all it was 15.7c a kWh with all charges and taxes. As I am new to that I don't know how that translates into kilometres driven.

 

[hemants]

Toronto rates are 7.7 cents to 14 cents worst case per kwh

http://www.torontohydro.com/sites/electricsystem/residential/yourbilloverview/Pages/ElectricityRates.aspx

 

[Doug_G]

I think he slipped a significant digit. It's not $0.30 per kilometer. It's $0.03 per km.

Speaking of someone who owns a P85 and a Corvette, there's no comparison - the Tesla is FAR cheaper to run.

 

[jordanthompson]

New math?

Hi Everyone. I am close to placing an order when I read a disturbing thread in the other Tesla forum where and new owner of a P85D stated it costs him more to run his D per mile than is costs him to run his Corvette.

Can someone from the GTA area clarify this for me? One of the considerations in buying the car for me is the cost of energy to run it. I was told repeatedly by Tesla sales that the cost to charge was $7/400 km range. What was posted on the other website is completely off the charts. Granted his calculating cost is .31 cents/kwh and very high but I don't understand how it could be cheaper to run a Corvette on gasoline.

The only way I can see this math working is the Corvette is paid off and he uses cheap tires and does all of his own maintenance. On the Tesla he is counting depreciation, mileage, interest on the loan, and takes it in regularly for the (unnecessary) yearly maintenance.

 

[wayner]

Toronto rates are 7.7 cents to 14 cents worst case per kwh

http://www.torontohydro.com/sites/e.../yourbilloverview/Pages/ElectricityRates.aspx

Plus other charges : (lower down on that webpage)
Distribution 1.54 cents/kwh
Transmission 1.37
Wholesale Ops 0.57
Debt retirement 0.7 (aka paying your parents' electricity bill because they never did)

That's another 4c/kwh.

But the Tesla is still way cheaper.

 

[mrElbe]

Plus other charges : (lower down on that webpage)
Distribution 1.54 cents/kwh
Transmission 1.37
Wholesale Ops 0.57
Debt retirement 0.7 (aka paying your parents' electricity bill because they never did)

That's another 4c/kwh.

But the Tesla is still way cheaper.

And HST on the whole mess of charges. Then you get about 20 cents / kWh. And the the Ontario Government graciously gives you a 10% rebate. So, real charge is a bit over 18 cents / kWh.

 

[PoweredByRain]

Where I live the cost works out to 2 cents per km for electricity (if you charge at home) and 2 cents per km for tire wear.

It's possible currently to run the Model S for no energy cost at all, if you want to leave it parked at free public charging stations. If you semi-regularly go somewhere near a Supercharger, you can even do this without leaving the car unattended. Not that you necessarily would want to do this, but: can you get free gasoline for a Corvette? I didn't think so.

 

[decibel]

Electricty Cost per Charge in Ottawa

I used the Ontario Power Authority's calculator to calculate the cost of electricity from Hydro Ottawa. http://www.ontarioenergyboard.ca/OEB/Consumers/Electricity/Your+Electricity+Utility

In order to appropriately account for fixed billing charges, I calculated the marginal cost of 70kwh given 500kwh of base monthly electricity consumption using the default split of 58% off-peak, 16% mid-peak, and 16% on-peak.

The marginal cost of an additional 70kwh was thus: $9.51 off-peak; $12.54 mid-peak; and $15.35 on-peak.

Hydro Ottawa Electricity Charges
	Base 500kwh	Plus 70kwh at peak	Plus 70kwh at mid-peak	Plus 70kwh at off-peak
Electricity
Off-Peak @ 8.00 ¢/kWh	25.6	25.54	25.54	31.01
Mid-Peak @ 12.200 ¢/kWh	10.98	11.13	19.47	11.13
On-Peak @ 16.100 ¢/kWh	14.49	25.7	14.68	14.68
Delivery	30.18	33.09	32.99	32.89
Regulatory Charges	3.2	3.62	3.62	3.62
Debt Retirement Charge	3.45	3.93	3.93	3.93
Total Electricity Charges	$87.90	$103.00	$100.23	$97.26
HST	11.43	13.39	13.03	12.64
Ontario Clean Energy Benefit (-10%)	(-9.93)	(-11.64)	(-11.33)	(-10.99)
Total Amount	$89.40	$104.75	$101.94	$98.91
Marginal Cost of 70kwh		$15.35	$12.54	$9.51

 

[mknox]

Can someone from the GTA area clarify this for me?

Please see this post I made in the Southern Ontario Tesla Owners thread and subsequent discussion.

 

[allanhof]

Just got my electricity bill and it is showing over 2100 kwh used in off peak when I charge by my car. This represents a massive increase in energy usage of 100%. I drive 2000kms per month and only charge at home after 7pm when the 8 cents kicks in. What is happening? Any suggestions? Am I reading this wrong? It seems like my electric bill has really spiked YoY.

 

[wayner]

Just got my electricity bill and it is showing over 2100 kwh used in off peak when I charge by my car. This represents a massive increase in energy usage of 100%. I drive 2000kms per month and only charge at home after 7pm when the 8 cents kicks in. What is happening? Any suggestions? Am I reading this wrong? It seems like my electric bill has really spiked YoY.

What sort of Wh/kM are you getting? At the rated range of 0.2kWh/km you would be using roughly 400kWh per month for your car, maybe a bit more if there are some losses in the whole charging process.

 

[mknox]

Just got my electricity bill and it is showing over 2100 kwh used in off peak when I charge by my car. This represents a massive increase in energy usage of 100%. I drive 2000kms per month and only charge at home after 7pm when the 8 cents kicks in. What is happening? Any suggestions? Am I reading this wrong? It seems like my electric bill has really spiked YoY.

First of all, remember that you're paying around 21 cents / kWh off-peak, not 8 cents. See the posting I linked to above for further information. Looking at my own logs, I find that my car consumes about 250 Wh/km in the summer from the wall outlet. This is a calculated number because the car's own energy meter does not account for all the power that comes out of the wall (explained a bit in that linked to post).

So... 2,000 km x 250 Wh/km = 500 kWh (the "average" Ontario household uses about 800 kWh monthly) x 21 cents = $105. Does this sound about right?

 

[mrElbe]

For comparison here is my home charging usage so far in Kwh:
January 48 car was delivered Jan. 26
February 807
March 959
April 94 car was for most of the month in body shop
May 470
June 695
July 196 was travelling to the Yukon in the Mercedes SL
August 595

I have a separate meter in the charging circuit.

 

[allanhof]

First of all, remember that you're paying around 21 cents / kWh off-peak, not 8 cents. See the posting I linked to above for further information. Looking at my own logs, I find that my car consumes about 250 Wh/km in the summer from the wall outlet. This is a calculated number because the car's own energy meter does not account for all the power that comes out of the wall (explained a bit in that linked to post).

So... 2,000 km x 250 Wh/km = 500 kWh (the "average" Ontario household uses about 800 kWh monthly) x 21 cents = $105. Does this sound about right?

I routinely get just under 190 wh/km . In my first 5300 kms I have 188 wh/km this far.

 

[allanhof]

First of all, remember that you're paying around 21 cents / kWh off-peak, not 8 cents. See the posting I linked to above for further information. Looking at my own logs, I find that my car consumes about 250 Wh/km in the summer from the wall outlet. This is a calculated number because the car's own energy meter does not account for all the power that comes out of the wall (explained a bit in that linked to post).

So... 2,000 km x 250 Wh/km = 500 kWh (the "average" Ontario household uses about 800 kWh monthly) x 21 cents = $105. Does this sound about right?

Likely yes, with the pool and AC running its hard to deduce exactly what Tessie is taking on but compared loosely to last year it looks about right.

 

[iKhalid]

I just received my first Enersource bill (Mississauga's Hydro). I'm renting a 13-year old semi-detached, with the worst AC I've ever dealt with. The first bill including a $20 admin/setup/one-time-fee was ~$386 for 50 days of usage (I moved on the 10th of July). At that time, I wasn't charging at home a lot since all I got was a 120v outlet in the garage (now a proper 14-50) but I find the consumption to be huge.

1550kW/h off peak!

I will wait for my next bill and see if things will be the same. Since then, I replaced all bulbs with LEDs and CFLs. I hope this will help.

Edit: There is something many forget to address, which is the delivery charge once you exceed a certain amount of usage (and you will with your EV). From the $386 bill, $96 was just for the delivery charges.

 

[wayner]

First of all, remember that you're paying around 21 cents / kWh off-peak, not 8 cents.

Are you sure this is right - that the surcharges are $0.13/kWH? That doesn't sound right. For my most recent bill my average cost per kWh was $0.163 - which is just dividing the total cost, including HST, by the kWhs used. So I don't know how the off-peak could be $0.21.

By my calculation the surcharges are as follows (assuming they are constant and don't have TOU variation)
Delivery : $0.0374/kWh
Regulatory: $0.006/KWh
Debt Retirement $0.007/kWh
Clear Energy Benefit - 10% off the above.

And then the off-peak rate for the underlying power is $0.08

So doesn't that work out to a rate of about $0.13/kWh before the 10% benefit and $0.117/kWh after the benefit? If you are like me the clean energy benefit won't reduce the cost of car charging as it only applies to the first 3000kWh of usage. I was over 10,000 kWh for my July bill (I have a pool, hot tub, two A/Cs since I have a large house, and three fridges).

 

[mrElbe]

Aha, since you are such a large consumer of electricity, the gross charge per Kwh is lower because that is a bigger component. In my case I used a total of 2312 Kwh in July and August resulting in a 18.739 cents/Kwh when dividing the total charge by the consumption.