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Electricity Cost per Charge/Toronto

wayner

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,883
1,474
Toronto
Aha, since you are such a large consumer of electricity, the gross charge per Kwh is lower because that is a bigger component. In my case I used a total of 2312 Kwh in July and August resulting in a 18.739 cents/Kwh when dividing the total charge by the consumption.
Is that 2312 the total for your entire house or just the car? I can't believe that is for an entire house as that works out to only about 37kWh/day which is extremely low, especially if you have an AC.
 
Are you sure this is right - that the surcharges are $0.13/kWH? That doesn't sound right. For my most recent bill my average cost per kWh was $0.163 - which is just dividing the total cost, including HST, by the kWhs used. So I don't know how the off-peak could be $0.21.

By my calculation the surcharges are as follows (assuming they are constant and don't have TOU variation)
Delivery : $0.0374/kWh
Regulatory: $0.006/KWh
Debt Retirement $0.007/kWh
Clear Energy Benefit - 10% off the above.

And then the off-peak rate for the underlying power is $0.08

So doesn't that work out to a rate of about $0.13/kWh before the 10% benefit and $0.117/kWh after the benefit? If you are like me the clean energy benefit won't reduce the cost of car charging as it only applies to the first 3000kWh of usage. I was over 10,000 kWh for my July bill (I have a pool, hot tub, two A/Cs since I have a large house, and three fridges).

I came to a similar conclusion, not factoring in the clean energy benefit, my off peak all-in price (including HST) is $0.128/kwh.

$0.08/kWh
$0.0206/kWh Delivery(off peak), on peak has a $0.0079/kWH surcharge
$0.0057/kWh
$0.007/kWh Debt Retirement

Customer Charge doesn't change based on usage so I don't factor that in to my cost to charge.

I'm with Milton Hydro.
 

iKhalid

Member
Feb 18, 2014
775
97
Ottawa, ON
I came to a similar conclusion, not factoring in the clean energy benefit, my off peak all-in price (including HST) is $0.128/kwh.

$0.08/kWh
$0.0206/kWh Delivery(off peak), on peak has a $0.0079/kWH surcharge
$0.0057/kWh
$0.007/kWh Debt Retirement

Customer Charge doesn't change based on usage so I don't factor that in to my cost to charge.

I'm with Milton Hydro.
Are you sure? I noticed that many Hydro companies in Ontario have the exact same pricing formula, including the delivery. For example, Hydro Ottawa and Enersourse in Mississauga are identical with their pricing and the way they charge for delivery.
 
Are you sure? I noticed that many Hydro companies in Ontario have the exact same pricing formula, including the delivery. For example, Hydro Ottawa and Enersourse in Mississauga are identical with their pricing and the way they charge for delivery.
That's how I interpreted this:
https://www.miltonhydro.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/electric_rate_card_2015.pdf

Even if I'm wrong, we're talking $0.136/kWh all in, off peak. Far from $0.21 being mentioned in this thread.
 

mrElbe

Active Member
Aug 17, 2014
1,766
1,217
Stouffville, ON Canada
Is that 2312 the total for your entire house or just the car? I can't believe that is for an entire house as that works out to only about 37kWh/day which is extremely low, especially if you have an AC.

Yes, that is the total for the house. My House is electric heat but we use Natural gas for water heater, cooking, BBQ, and fireplace. The fireplace contributes lots of heat in the winter. For A/C we have a large single wall unit that does the entire house quite well. It is a two story house. I got the Tesla end of January so you can see in the chart below the increase of electric consumption in the Jan-March and April-June rows of the 2014/2015 column. The 2312 Kwh in the 2015/2016 July-Sept row is for July and August so far.
 

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SmartElectric

Active Member
Jul 9, 2014
2,523
2,405
Toronto,Canada
We are comfortably less than 20kWh consumption averaged per day over the entire year. Approximately 20% is peak, 25% mid peak, and the rest off peak, x mostly charging the Smart or Tesla. We have done a lot of work to lower consumption, and have gas heat (97% efficiency), stove, fireplace and water heating.
I upgraded to a much more efficient pool pump this year, saving $200 in electricity alone.
 

wayner

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,883
1,474
Toronto
I also have lots of gas appliances and while these are cheaper I wonder if they are better for the environment, especially GHG emissions, as Ontario doesn't burn many hydrocarbons to generate electricity, especially during off-peak. Currently only 5.9% of our electricity is coming from NG. Substituting gas for electricity means more emissions, at least in Ontario.

- - - Updated - - -

I upgraded to a much more efficient pool pump this year, saving $200 in electricity alone.
What type of pump did you get and how many hours per day do you run the pump? I am thinking about replacing mine for both efficiency and noise reasons.
 
I read "Post" by MKnox and to summarize he listed costs for electricity as follows:

Off peak - $0.1265/KWh; mid peak - $0.1707/KWh; peak - $0.2117/Kwh

Hence the discussion that the off peak rate of 8 cents actually being 21 cents when all other charges are added to the rate is not accurate. In fact MKnox calculation in his report lists 12.65 cents/KWh as the more appropriate rate for OFF peak usage, which is more in line with all the usage comments listed by many in above calculations.

I charge our S only during off peak hours and my calculations are in line with the 12-13 cent/ KWh calculations listed above. In fact our off peak usage in July 2015 was 81.2% of total usage. We try to use dishwasher, washer, dryer, A/C only during fOFF peak hours. We do our best to try and not use much power during on-peak periods.
 

SmartElectric

Active Member
Jul 9, 2014
2,523
2,405
Toronto,Canada
Substituting gas for electricity means more emissions, at least in Ontario

My wife signed us up for BullFrog natural gas.
Ref:
Bullfrog Power Products - Green Natural Gas

Sourced from a unique, ground-breaking methane-capture project situated on one of Canada's thousands of landfills, Bullfrog's green natural gas is a climate-friendly alternative to conventional, polluting natural gas. Through this innovative technology, biogas is captured, cleaned up, and injected onto the national natural gas pipeline, displacing fossil-fuel based gas and reducing CO2 emissions into the atmosphere.


What type of pump did you get and how many hours per day do you run the pump? I am thinking about replacing mine for both efficiency and noise reasons.

Pentair WhisperFlo 1/2HP. This replaced the pump we had for 8 years that failed at the end of last season. The new pump is less than half the watts and pumped more water than the previous pump. We typically run the pump from 10 AM to 4 PM daily, and mostly on sunny days. The pool is 120000L with 1 foot thick concrete walls, made in 1952 to last!

I also spent two days replumbing to reduce 90 degree bends which dramatically reduced head pressure, and this made the solar (thermal) panels more efficient at capturing heat. Lots of work, but nice pay off, as the pool was 85F for most of the summer, and was 84F last week, which is very unusual for September.

Ref:
http://www.pentairpool.com/products/pumps-inground-whisperflo-high-performance-pump-193.htm
 
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mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,894
Toronto, ON
I routinely get just under 190 wh/km . In my first 5300 kms I have 188 wh/km this far.

If this is from your car's display, then that is only the amount the car uses from the battery when it's on. More will come out of the wall than the car's displays account for.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you sure this is right - that the surcharges are $0.13/kWH?

Absolutely positive about the table I posted, but in my haste I used the On-peak rate in my post above. I should have said 12.65 cents for off-peak, not the 21 cents I said.

- - - Updated - - -

I came to a similar conclusion, not factoring in the clean energy benefit, my off peak all-in price (including HST) is $0.128/kwh.

$0.08/kWh
$0.0206/kWh Delivery(off peak), on peak has a $0.0079/kWH surcharge
$0.0057/kWh
$0.007/kWh Debt Retirement

Customer Charge doesn't change based on usage so I don't factor that in to my cost to charge.

I'm with Milton Hydro.

You haven't factored in Loss Adjustment nor HST in those numbers. Delivery and Regulatory charges are the same for all TOU periods.
 
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