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Electricity is $5/gallon

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#63
PoitNarf said:
If you’re thinking of getting a portable generator get a dual fuel one that works on gasoline or propane. Gas will go bad eventually, but propane can be stored indefinitely. Propane can also still be obtained in a power outage when a gas station pump would be inoperable.
Click to expand...
Nah my interest was theoretical / mathematical.
 
#64
I run my M3 at about 250 watts/mi. So 4 miles per kwh. 11pm to 7am electricity is just under $0.13/kwh where we live under PG&E's EV-A time of use plan. This is the equivalent of 3.25 cents per mile. So compared to a 30 mpg car, I am paying the equivalent of just under $1/gallon. OK, with the viper drain, say $1.10/gal. I charge at work on ChargePoint for 26 cents/kwh ($1.50 per hour), so that works out to the equivalent of $2/gallon. Compared to $4/gal for premium at our local Chevron station, I'll take either any day.
 
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#65
U.S. Fuel Consumed at Refineries

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2013/11/f4/energy_use_and_loss_and_emissions_petroleum.pdf
...The petroleum refining sector is the largest consumer of fuel in U.S. manufacturing, when considering the inclusion of feedstocks or without feedstocks. Close to 90% of onsite fuel use in refining is applied toward process heating, 65% directly and an additional 23% for the generation of steam used in process heating. The petroleum refining sector has the largest process heating energy demand of all manufacturing sectors, and correspondingly is also the largest generator of onsite GHG combustion emissions...
...The petroleum refining sector ranks first in onsite energy use...
Click to expand...
refinite.png

It takes a tremendous amount of energy to bake/cook/refine down the oil into gasoline.
That has to be factored in to the total energy used when you burn a gallon of gasoline in an internal combustion energy car.
There is a lot of waste heat in the refinery,
A lot of waste heat in the exhaust and brakes of the truck bringing you the fuel,
and a lot of waste heat in the ICE vehicle when you drive it.

The price we pay for fuel is heavily subsidized (in large part with your tax money) so the oil companies can sell it at a lower price, and not scare you away with the true costs.
Even with all that subsidizing, it is still cheaper to drive on electricity.
 
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#71
LBH PML said:
I run my M3 at about 250 watts/mi. So 4 miles per kwh. 11pm to 7am electricity is just under $0.13/kwh where we live under PG&E's EV-A time of use plan. This is the equivalent of 3.25 cents per mile. So compared to a 30 mpg car, I am paying the equivalent of just under $1/gallon. OK, with the viper drain, say $1.10/gal. I charge at work on ChargePoint for 26 cents/kwh ($1.50 per hour), so that works out to the equivalent of $2/gallon. Compared to $4/gal for premium at our local Chevron station, I'll take either any day.
Click to expand...
Why do you bother charging at work for double the price at home?
 
#73
Total energy to work comparison at 33.7kWh for a gallon a gas of Model 3 and 3 Series (apples to apples).

Model 3 is EPA 310/75 = 4.1333 miles per kWh and 33.7kWh x 4.1333 = 139.29MPG

BMW 3 Series 328i is EPA 26MPG combined.

So same amount of energy 'in the tank":

BMW Series 3 is 26 miles
Tesla Model 3 is 139 miles

So while the same energy may cost almost 2x as much but you go over 5x farther.
 
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#74
I made sort of the opposite argument to this thread in November of last year.... Here's an excerpt:
I think this is key, because efficiency is far more important with EV than ICE. The limitation of energy stored in a battery vs a fuel tank mandates this. Perspective: the 100 kWh battery pack has the equivalent energy storage as LESS than 3 gallons of gas (33.7 kW/gal gasoline per EPA). If the 4,700 lbs 100D Model S were as efficient as an ICE, it would have like 50 miles of range. While Tesla has been and continues to optimize these efficiencies (motor, inverter, switches, wiring, transmission, etc), it really just seems like an amazing position for Tesla. Thoughts?
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#75
Here is a simplified way to explain to Joe the Plumber about charging costs for a Model 3:

My wife and I plugged in our Model 3 at the Kettleman City Supercharger two weeks ago. The Union 76 station at the corner advertised $3.65/gallon for 87 octane gasoline.

When the charge on the screen at twenty-six cents per kWh reached $3.64, we had added 14kWh of electricity. According to the touchscreen, we had "added 58 miles" of range.

So, using this flawed but illustrative comparison, Tesla Model 3s get roughly 58 MPG, or about double the equivalent of an average ICE.

Home charging in PG&E territory is roughly 20 cents on tier 1, and it is less if on TOU rates and charged overnight or with a generous PV array on one's home.

.20 (home rate)/.26 (SC rate) = .7692. Interstate highway fuel at $3.65(.7692) = $2.8076. I do not believe that anywhere in urban California is currently retailing gasoline for $2.81. This fact makes driving a Model 3 even more compelling.
 
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#76
JulienW said:
Total energy to work comparison at 33.7kWh for a gallon a gas of Model 3 and 3 Series (apples to apples).

Model 3 is EPA 310/75 = 4.1333 miles per kWh and 33.7kWh x 4.1333 = 139.29MPG

BMW 3 Series 328i is EPA 26MPG combined.

So same amount of energy 'in the tank":

BMW Series 3 is 26 miles
Tesla Model 3 is 139 miles

So while the same energy may cost almost 2x as much but you go over 5x farther.
Click to expand...
Details...
 
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#77
insaneoctane said:
Very misleading thread title.
  • Most Americans can save around 50% to 75% on fuel costs with EV
  • With solar it can approach 100% long-term
  • EVs are significantly more efficient machines than ICE counterparts (thread title actually makes this point, only very poorly)
  • On average, results in far less GHG
Click to expand...
Most Americans? Of the 120+ million households in this country, 75 million own their home, 45 million rent. A significant number of the 75 million do not have a garage/driveway/means to charge an electric car. Like it or not, ICE cars are going to be around for a long time.

I save on my fuel costs by doing work.
 
#78
Barklikeadog said:
Most Americans? Of the 120+ million households in this country, 75 million own their home, 45 million rent. A significant number of the 75 million do not have a garage/driveway/means to charge an electric car. Like it or not, ICE cars are going to be around for a long time.

I save on my fuel costs by doing work.
Click to expand...
The beauty of having a supercharger network is that people who don't have a garage/driveway can still charge.
 
#79
insaneoctane said:
Very misleading thread title.
  • Most Americans can save around 50% to 75% on fuel costs with EV
  • With solar it can approach 100% long-term
  • EVs are significantly more efficient machines than ICE counterparts (thread title actually makes this point, only very poorly)
  • On average, results in far less GHG
Click to expand...
Misleading? But it is factual comparison!!!




There are lies, damned lies, and statistics
 
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