Electrify America Fast Chargers - Huh?

[Eno Deb]

At EA’s Pass+ CA rate of $.70 per minute that would as low as $.23 per kWh.

Yes, but only for a short time. Then it would taper and charge much fewer kilowatt hours per minute and you'd still pay $0.70 ...

 

[Jeff N]

Yes, but only for a short time. Then it would taper and charge much fewer kilowatt hours per minute and you'd still pay $0.70 ...

Yes, but it would still work out to around $0.30 per kWh if you charge from 15% to 65% to add ~36 kWh in around 15 minutes every couple of hours of driving or so. Longer charging stops for lunch or dinner is where the pricing would really start to diverge between California Supercharging and theoretical CCS charging up to 500A at EA.

 

[Eno Deb]

Here are plots comparing the per-kWh cost in EA's >125kW price tier with Tesla's rates depending on charge power:

 

[bro1999]

So has any Model S/X owner done a field test at an EA CHAdeMO station and confirmed what tier EA charges Tesla owners using a CHAdeMO adapter?

 

[mociaf9]

So has any Model S/X owner done a field test at an EA CHAdeMO station and confirmed what tier EA charges Tesla owners using a CHAdeMO adapter?

Since EA's CHAdeMO chargers are currently limited to 50 kW (I believe this is true regardless of the limits of the Tesla adapter), it would be stunningly disingenuous for EA to charge CHAdeMO users at the higher priced tiers on the basis that their cars could theoretically accept a higher power even though EA's chargers can't provide it. Though given that it's EA, and considering the nature and cause of EA's inception, they don't get the benefit of the doubt from me. So, I guess we'll need to hear from those with actual experience.

 

[FlatSix911]

Here are plots comparing the per-kWh cost in EA's >125kW price tier with Tesla's rates depending on charge power:

View attachment 417727

View attachment 417728

Thanks for posting the graphic data plots... it appears in every case up to 150kW that EA is more expensive than Telsa SC.

 

[Zoomit]

This afternoon we got a taste of what a Model 3 LR (with theoretical CCS Type 1 adapter) will do on a 500A, 350kW station similar to what EA is rolling out. I put my original comments in this thread: V3 Supercharging Profiles for Model 3

But in summary, a Model 3 charging at 190kW on a "350kW" EA station will only be 10-20% faster than when charging on a "150 kW" V2 Supercharger. A 2-5 min difference is pretty immaterial for my trip planning. Location and other conveniences will determine which sites I'd choose.

 

[SageBrush]

Thanks for posting the graphic data plots... it appears in every case up to 150kW that EA is more expensive than Telsa SC.

Pretty much, and some more since the monthly $4 charge to be an EA member, and the $1 session connect charge are not included in the graph.

 

[Eno Deb]

Electrify America and Chargepoint announce roaming partnership:

Electrify America NEWSROOM

 

[SageBrush]

Pretty much, and some more since the monthly $4 charge to be an EA member, and the $1 session connect charge are not included in the graph.

I'm wrong ...
I forgot that EA picks the pricing tier by the early load and then that price continues throughout the session unrelated to tapering. Effectively, the pricing is according to peak load. This might work out well for the e-tron but I don't expect to hear many happy campers when they take the time to figure out their average price/kWh.

 

[Eno Deb]

I'm wrong ...
I forgot that EA picks the pricing tier by the early load and then that price continues throughout the session unrelated to tapering. Effectively, the pricing is according to peak load. This might work out well for the e-tron but I don't expect to hear many happy campers when they take the time to figure out their average price/kWh.

That's why I made the plots above. They assume that you are in the highest price tier (>125kW) for the entire session.

BTW, we don't know exactly how they determine the tier. It could be the initial load, session peak load, or it could be a maximum power value that the car communicates to the charger via CCS protocol during the initial session setup (that's what EA's description sounds like).

Regarding the "Pass +" subscription fee, given the price difference of $0.29 per minute in the highest tier, the $4 will pay for themselves if you charge for at least ~14 minutes per month (so it's probably worth it even for a single charge), and "Pass +" also eliminates the $1 session fee.

 

[FlatSix911]

Electrify America and Chargepoint announce roaming partnership:

Electrify America NEWSROOM

Interesting agreement... does that mean that ChargePoint rates will increase to match EA?

Campbell, CA and Reston, VA (June 11, 2019) – Today, Electrify America and ChargePoint announced a roaming partnership that will further expand access to electric vehicle (EV) charging across the United States. The interoperability agreement will allow drivers to seamlessly charge their EVs on public chargers between both networks using their existing account credentials to start a session, without incurring any additional fees.

Beginning later this year, drivers will be able to access public chargers on either the ChargePoint or Electrify America networks without having to create new memberships, registrations or payment configurations. The plan will connect more than 30,000 Level 2 (L2) and DC fast chargers from Electrify America and ChargePoint across the U.S., adding significant public access as the number of EVs on the road significantly increases in the coming years.

 

[Jeff N]

Interesting agreement... does that mean that ChargePoint rates will increase to match EA?

ChargePoint doesn’t have rates. They operate an authentication and billing system for equipment owned by other people who set their own prices. A ChargePoint account is just a cash account backed by a credit card.

My own article on this deal has slightly more background than the press release but there are details around this agreement that we don’t know yet.

ChargePoint and Electrify America announce roaming agreement

 

[rxlawdude]

It’s more useful to just look at a map. Here is the latest Electrify America Cycle 1 map showing approximate charging locations planned to be operational by the end of this year.

View attachment 407472


No, there’s no delay — that was a screwup in the May 6 press release. I’ve been told it’s going to be corrected online soon (meaning probably in the next day or two).

They are still saying the same thing they have been saying for at least the last year or so which is that they will have all ~484 of the locations leased and “under development” by June 30 but won’t have them all fully constructed, energized by the utilities, and open for business until the end of this year.

I was at the media workshop at their HQ in Virginia a couple of weeks ago and wrote this:

Electrify America shows new mobile app, reveals new pricing plans



Yep. They recently rolled out a major software update to their sites which may fix some of the problems people have been having.

They still have some inconsistent site design issues with the local subcontractors they are using but those are typically issues that can be easily fixed such as concrete parking stops that keep cars from getting close enough.

They are installing longer cables at some sites and are also changing the rotation of the cables so they don’t have to be twisted as much when plugging into a car inlet. The recently updated site in Livermore in California, for example, is now much easier to use.


I’d say Tesla is averaging more like 9 charging spaces now where Electrify America is going to average about 5 in Cycle 1 for their highway sites. Obviously, some of Tesla’s sites are now 20 or even 40 charging spaces while Electrify America tops out now at 10 but they have hinted they might have a small number of sites with slightly more.


At the end of this year I’m guessing Tesla might have around 700-800 sites in the US (about 640 now). Electrify America will have close to 500 (with maybe a few Cycle 2 sites online).

But, Tesla’s sites are more evenly dispersed, have about twice the number of charging spaces on average, and overall will likely have 7,000-8,000 charging spaces in the US vs 2,000+ for Electrify America.

It’s too soon to compare electricity dispensing and utilization rates because right now there are still large gaps in EA’s network which inhibits long-distance road trips to many destinations. Also, there are fewer CCS cars on the road to use them. Drivers inclined toward road trips today are far more likely to have bought a Tesla. For local charging, many Tesla customers still have “free” Supercharging which encourages use.

So, Jeff, when can we expect your report on your 3,000 mile road trip in a Bolt? You know, the kind that Teslas can do without breaking a sweat or requiring 4 hours to charge.

 

[Jeff N]

So, Jeff, when can we expect your report on your 3,000 mile road trip in a Bolt? You know, the kind that Teslas can do without breaking a sweat or requiring 4 hours to charge.

Thanks for asking!

Here’s my 3,000+ mile trip to Northern Canada from last summer that was just before Electrify America opened their first west coast charging sites. It was also just before ChargePoint replaced their 24 kW chargers in Norther California with 50 kW units. Still lots of fun.

Bolt EV road trip: San Francisco to Edmonton

I did another trip to Edmonton in late Winter this year that was just a bit over 4,500 miles.

For this trip in, which took place in mid-March, I was able to ditch the 24 kW chargers and do almost all of the US part of the trip using 17 Electrify America charging sites. My only significant 240V AC charging was at lodging stops and for four hours in Whitefish, Montana to get from the Canadian border down to Missoula.

On the way back I took a loop through Western Montana, Southern Idaho, and back up through Eastern Oregon before heading back home on I-5.

Although it was in March, I still experienced a few inches of snowfall and some colder (~20F) driving in Canada but the roads were mostly dry and clear. I haven’t bothered to write about the trip online.

 

[SageBrush]

Here’s my 3,000+ mile trip to Northern Canada

Any year now you will be able to take an East/West trip; and in the next 10 years you might be able to choose a route by preference rather than charging stations.

 

[RubberToe]

Any year now you will be able to take an East/West trip; and in the next 10 years you might be able to choose a route by preference rather than charging stations.

Sure, but where is the adventure in that???

RT

 

[rxlawdude]

A lot of the road he covered mirrored our M3 RWD LR trip to Banff (with day trip to Calgary).

We spent half or less the time charging, yet had plenty of time for meals and potty breaks.

So yes, he demonstrates it CAN be done in a Bolt, but practical when you are trying to travel 500 miles a day? Nope.

 

[RubberToe]

I drove Mrs. Toes Fiat 500e on a round trip from LA to San Diego and back. The trip required several hours of L2 charging along the way, like hanging out at the Walmart in Corona. Just cause it "can" be done, doesn't necessarily mean it should be done. The Soul EV with DCFC would have been a better choice, but it was in the shop.

Having survived that, Jeff's trip in his Bolt sounds absolutely fabulous by comparison. Kinda sorta

RT

 

[Big Earl]

I drove Mrs. Toes Fiat 500e on a round trip from LA to San Diego and back. The trip required several hours of L2 charging along the way, like hanging out at the Walmart in Corona. Just cause it "can" be done, doesn't necessarily mean it should be done. The Soul EV with DCFC would have been a better choice, but it was in the shop.

Having survived that, Jeff's trip in his Bolt sounds absolutely fabulous by comparison. Kinda sorta

RT

Speaking of epic trips in a Fiat 500e, check out this road trip series from Bellingham, WA to San Francisco, CA (and back, of course). Not the best video skills, but the trip itself is pretty mind boggling.