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Electrify America Fast Chargers - Huh?

Discussion in 'Supercharging & Charging Infrastructure' started by minderbinder, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. tomc603

    tomc603 Member

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    For being false, there sure is easy to find evidence that I'm right. Here's an article noting that their target was over 500 in the US alone when initially announced, which was going to be added to with their Canadian deployment.

    How many locations to they have installed again? Less than half of their lowered goal, which is less than their initial goal? I wonder why that is. :rolleyes: Could be because they know if they don't meet their obligation, nobody's going to punish them for it. And, as I suggest above, the fraud and lack of moral fiber from the company's leadership.

    The chargers at the sites say 50kW. They've removed the feature from their web site to show what charging facilities are available, but as an example Chocipee, MA was announced as 350, was spoken about at the ribbon cutting ceremony as 350, aaaaaaand it was 50. There's even a fun video on youtube of the opening ceremony where they very clearly say 350kW chargers. And then when you look at promotional photos, you see the 50kW stickers on the chargers.
     
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  2. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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    How many chargers has EA actually deployed... vs. how many they promised in 2017/18/19?
     
  3. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    I just checked the Electrify America app and it shows 4 chargers at Chicopee Marketplace. 3 are online. 1 is 350kW dual CCS, 1 is 150kW dual CCS, 1 is 150kW CCS plus 50kW CHAdeMO, and the last one is offline, but is 150kW dual CCS.

    Chicopee Status 2019-07-03-A.jpg Chicopee Status 2019-07-03-B.jpg
     
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  4. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    #264 cwerdna, Jul 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    FWIW, I believe Nissan NCTC started in late 2013 (https://jalopnik.com/theres-no-charge-to-charge-for-new-nissan-lead-buyer-1410821676) and got rolled out to more markets over time. And, to be clear, it's only free for the first two years and there are some restrictions (e.g. session length and the "timeout" period) besides being only on EVgo now. Previously, it was Blink and EVgo, but the Blink partnership fell apart. Blink sucks anyway.

    As for "How many actually deployed evs right now can charge at these stations?", it's hard for me to give exact numbers given that some EVs that can have DC FC inlet had it optional at one point or another, or it's still optional. I can tell you US market EV/PHEV models that can have DC FC inlet compatible with CHAdeMO or SAE Combo off top the of my head going by Final Update: Monthly Plug-In EV Sales Scorecard: June 2019 and and a few archived pages. Again, it's optional on some and I'm leaving off vehicles where it's n/a from the factory.

    Nissan Leaf, gen 2 Ford Focus Electric, VW e-Golf, Audi e-tron (SUV, NOT the A3 e-tron PHEV), Model S and X w/CHAdeMO adapter, Chevy Bolt EV and Spark EV. Mitsubishi i-MiEV and Outlander PHEV, Kia Soul EV and Niro EV, Hyundai Kona Electric and Ioniq Electric, Jaguar i-Pace, BMW i3, Honda Clarity EV

    I hope I didn't forget any (gen 2 Rav4 EV and Tesla Roadster modified with JdeMO don't really count). I have personally seen virtually all of the above EVs/PHEVs either on the road, parked somewhere or at an auto show. I think I haven't seen the Niro EV nor i-Pace.
     
  5. ralph142

    ralph142 Member

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    Nice list thanks. I’ve seen at least one Niro and I pace here. I’ve not seen any egolf. So effectively all from non vw manufacturers given egolf/ Audi low us sales. I think that explains their lack of enthusiasm.

    Off topic but I had a long and sadly nasty exchange with Whole Foods/Evgo. This is a town full of evs, lots of older leafs in particular. The local wf was putting in an evgo chaedemo/ccs two bay station and I pointed out to them that they were excluding most Tesla owners, and that they might consider adding a j1772 (not great, but hey some top off while I shop). The wf folks were cool with it, but the evgo rep said as policy they won’t do that because “somebody’s grandma will park her Tesla there all day while taking the bus to work and hog the spot.”, and it’s Tesla’s fault that they don’t have an adaptor. I said why not have a time limit? Who is going to shop at Whole Foods for more than an hr? Lo and behold what is the big complaint I see logged about the site now? Cars parked there and done or not charging.
     
  6. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

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    The eGolf also has low range compared to the eNiro and iPace. That could be a factor, since I'd expect eGolf owners would be unlikely to take their cars on road trips, whereas eNiro and iPace owners might be willing to do so, and of course DC fast charging is a practical necessity for road trips beyond a certain distance. Hence, I'd expect to see more demand for DC fast charging from road-trip-capable EVs than from city runabouts like the eGolf. That's speculative, though; I don't know what actual usage statistics show.

    FWIW, there's a mall near me with an EVgo station that has one each of CCS, CHAdeMO, and J1772. I've used the J1772 from time to time, but sometimes its spot is in use or ICEd. I don't know if EVgo have solid data to back up their claim that J1772 spots get hogged in the way they claim any more than DC fast charger spots, but it could happen. OTOH, that could also happen because of people who don't have home charging (apartment dwellers, for instance), and I'd consider that to be a perfectly valid use of such infrastructure.
     
  7. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    #267 Jeff N, Jul 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    The original California and National (sans California) plans from March/April 2017 did not include the specific 484 goal for highway and metro DC charging sites. That number came later in April 2018 when they rolled out more details about the new charging hardware. That 484 goal released in 2018 was ~300 highway (~240 National and ~50 California) and 184 metro (~74 National and ~110 California) DC sites.

    The original National plan called for 240 highway DC charging sites with at least 150 to be operational by June 30, 2019 and a further 90 to be under development.

    The original California plan called for 50 highway charging sites all of which were to be completed by June 30, 2019.

    In the original plans, the metro charging targets did not separately identify the numbers for DC charging sites vs AC charging sites but only gave combined targets and a spending estimate. This is perhaps the original of 500+ site number confusion.

    The original National plan calls for 300+ metro sites for a combined total of about 450 highway and metro sites by June 30 and 90 highway sites under development.

    The original California plan calls for 350+ metro sites for a combined total of about 400 highway and metro sites by June 30.

    Combining the original California and National plans, that would be 200 highway sites completed by June 30 with 90 under development and some 650 metro sites completed by June 30.

    In reality, EA completed roughly 215 highway and metro DC sites by June 30 outside California. I don’t know exactly how many of these were highway vs metro but a good guess is that 150+ of them are highway thus meeting their original Cycle 1 National highway goal.

    The big miss is in California, where they have only completed about 14 DC sites of which (I’m guessing) about half are highway sites rather than the 50 highway and 110 metro sites which were planned for completion by June 30. Although not spelled out separately in the original CA plan from 2017, about 110 metro DC sites (out of 350 metro sites DC and AC) were planned by June 30. So, EA has a long way to go on their DC sites in California but has reiterated recently they aim to complete all of their Cycle 1 work in California and Nationally by the end of 2019.

    Another miss is in AC metro sites generally. This hasn’t gotten much media attention, but EA has fallen behind on getting their 240V “Level 2” J1772 charging clusters installed at workplaces and residential complexes.

    It should be noted that the original California plan was not approved and a modified plan was eventually approved at least a couple of months late after further negotiations with California. Thus, EA has long-ago disclaimed the original schedule timetable in the original 2017 plan. Still, having ~14 sites out 160 by June 30 is clearly a miss.

    These image snapshots are from the original National plan:


    6F65018D-D0F3-43B9-927F-4B2C66047F1C.jpeg C694399D-1F99-47C2-BB30-C1407A602659.jpeg
    E9C3AF23-C08C-4F10-9907-66505F79EFE6.jpeg

    This is from the original California plan from 2017:

    D52DA56D-0F7C-455C-9933-2B4C822B4405.jpeg
    3CA977DD-B3F7-4A85-9F11-CB60E0534876.jpeg
     
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  8. Eno Deb

    Eno Deb Active Member

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    Where's the link?
    You probably looked at the Chademo side of the CCS/Chademo combo charger. :rolleyes:
     
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  9. tomc603

    tomc603 Member

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  10. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    The Niro youi've seen may not have been a BEV. If you look at {{mctrl.meta.metaTitle}}, you'll noticed there are at least 3 versions: non-plugin hybrid, plug-in hybrid and pure electric. Also see Compare Side-by-Side. I'd seen a Niro PHEV parked, ages ago, before the BEV was shipping.

    E-Golf for the US market appears to be a CA/CARB compliance car if Volkswagen e-Golf In Very Limited Supply In U.S. is still accurate.
    e-Golf seems to sell ok in Europe if you look at the YTD figures: Europe EV Sales: Renault Zoe Wins In December, Nissan LEAF Takes 2018 Title | CleanTechnica.
     
  11. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    Here’s a YouTube video from December, 2018 many months after the opening and the CCS cables on the Chicopee chargers are still 150+ kW. Skip to 17:55 in the video.

     
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  12. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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    Interesting stats on EA... so what is the actual shortfall on planned sites vs. actual?
     
  13. wws

    wws Member

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    The paucity of CCS and CHAdeMO stations between NorCal and SoCal along I-5 and 101 is downright embarrassing. Those two corridors should have been among the first to be covered. (Ages ago Tesla Roadster owners installed charging stations along I-5. And Harris Ranch and Tejon were among the first Supercharger sites.)
     
  14. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    There are lots along highway 99.

    On 2011 (Thread for suggested locations for Nissan Charge Stations? - My Nissan Leaf Forum), I too wanted them on I-5 but two folks there responded w/reasons that they should be on 101 and 99 instead.
     
  15. wws

    wws Member

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    Given the low range with early Leafs, 99 would make sense. But longer range non-Tesla’s, like the Bolt EV, have been out for a couple years now. I’ve done the NorCal - SoCal drive countless times in ICE cars over the past 40 years. However I can count the number of times I’ve done it on 99 on one hand.
     
  16. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    Yes and no.

    Yes, it’s embarrassing how poor the charging is along 101 and I-5. It’s taken way too long to get a skeletal charging network installed on I-5 although it’s slightly better for CHAdeMO due to sites a Coalinga and Lost Hills.

    I-5 should have good initial coverage later this year and 101 should have okay coverage once the Electrify America sites open near Greenfield and Paso Robles (and probably another near Santa Barbara) although 101 can be used today by a 200+ mile EV.

    However, I’m inclined to agree with the strategy of initially populating CA-99. It brings access to much of eastern central CA and isn’t that bad of a detour from 5 or 101. I think it was better to concentrate charging along one corridor than have sketchy coverage divided between three corridors.
     
  17. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    ChargePoint has already installed most of their grant funded sites along I-5 with multiple 50kW DCFC stations. However, they are not all active and are apparently waiting for utility transformers.

    Active stations:
    • Santa Nella
    • Harris Ranch
    Coming Soon stations:
    • Buttonwillow
    • Tejon Ranch

    When those last two are online, the longest stretch without DCFC on I-5 will be 77 miles between Harris Ranch and Buttonwillow. Electrify America also has a "Coming Soon" location at the Panoche Rd. interchage on I-5. CalTrans also has plans to install a fast charger at their Kettleman City depot, but it will probably only be a single unit and it's not that close to the services near the interchange.

    I am purposely ignoring the 24kW CHAdeMO station that were installed with funding from the first CEC grant because they're so slow, and they're single units, and there is no backup charging in case they are inop. I have consciously avoided planning a trip using those chargers for the above reasons.

    I don't want to poke a wasp nest here, but it appears that Electrify America "stole" the Greenfield site from Recargo on the 101 corridor. Earlier CEC docs showed that Recargo planned to install at that shopping center. Later docs showed that they moved their site and Electrify America now shows it as a "coming soon" location. This was a complaint from some of the CEC grant participants against Electrify America at one of the recent public hearings. Their proposed sites appear in public documents and apparently Electrify America chose to approach some of those site owners and offer a sweeter deal.
     
  18. Eno Deb

    Eno Deb Active Member

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    Nothing has changed from what is said in this article. EA will install far more than 500 chargers including the phases after cycle 1 and their L2 chargers.
    Apparently not. Here's the Plugshare page for the Chicopee location:

    PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You

    If you click the photo section, you can clearly see that the CCS dispensers are labelled with 150/350kW. Only the lone Chademo dispenser is labeled 50kW.


    Untitled.jpg
     
  19. Eno Deb

    Eno Deb Active Member

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    Agreed. The delays in bringing up sites in the entire state of California are the biggest issue with their deployment.

    Interestingly, there are actually a few sites not far from where I live where the chargers have already been installed since weeks or months but haven't been powered (e.g. close to the Great Mall in Milpitas, CA). Wonder what's the holdup ...
     
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  20. tomc603

    tomc603 Member

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    Ah, so the upgraded them to exactly half of what they were advertised as when opened. Fantastic. Thanks for the video.
     
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