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Electrify America Fast Chargers - Huh?

Discussion in 'Supercharging & Charging Infrastructure' started by minderbinder, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    He's arguing that the EA 150 kW chargers are capable of going to 800V directly. Apparently the BTC supplied cabinets that some EA sites use are capable of it.
     
  2. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    Yes, it looks like it when looking at the label on EA BTC Power charger in my area. Would be interesting to know if the car still limits itself to 50 kW anyway w/o paying for that $460 upgrade.

    Unfortunately (?), from talking to the Taycan driver I know about the dizzying amount of options available on a Taycan, he said everything is "bespoke", so it sounds like the car is typically built specifically for a customer order unlike the typical process I've seen at least at Japanese car and probably American car dealerships.

    IIRC, he'd ordered his car long ago and waited months to receive it.
     
  3. wws

    wws Member

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    Interesting. In fact, there is a "150kW" (only) EA site a few miles from my house. I stopped by there today, and they have three BTC units. The decals on the two I looked at state they go up to 950V and 350A.
     
  4. miimura

    miimura Well-Known Member

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    That just means that the dispenser has the cooled cable and it will not be the limiting factor. The cabinet connected to the dispenser would be the limiting factor and I suspect that EA paired a 150kW cabinet with only one dispenser.

    Personally, I think that in an urban area, it would be more interesting to pair two dispensers with the cooled cables with a 200kW cabinet that can split the power between the stalls. In that case a single Taycan could take 200kW or two e-Trons could take 100kW each. BTC explicitly supports this configuration.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. kayak1

    kayak1 Member

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    Nice script.

    I was able to grab the data and this is a list with the total number of SC in the state and a total > 200KW: (I ran it via sort thus the states are in order but the V3 vs total is a little random.


    AK 0
    AK 0
    AL 0
    AL 7
    AR 2
    AR 3
    AZ 25
    AZ 4
    CA 198
    CA 50
    CO 23
    CO 9
    CT 10
    CT 23
    DE 1
    DE 5
    FL 16
    FL 56
    GA 21
    GA 4
    HI 0
    HI 0
    IA 0
    IA 8
    ID 1
    ID 6
    IL 26
    IL 7
    IN 15
    IN 4
    KS 1
    KS 9
    KY 1
    KY 6
    LA 1
    LA 7
    MA 23
    MA 3
    MD 20
    MD 4
    ME 1
    ME 11
    MI 1
    MI 21
    MN 15
    MN 4
    MO 0
    MO 13
    MS 0
    MS 6
    MT 13
    MT 4
    NC 2
    NC 20
    ND 4
    ND 4
    NE 0
    NE 5
    NH 1
    NH 7
    NJ 30
    NJ 7
    NM 0
    NM 9
    NV 19
    NV 3
    NY 52
    NY 9
    OH 1
    OH 18
    OK 0
    OK 5
    OR 18
    OR 4
    PA 27
    PA 7
    RI 0
    RI 1
    SC 3
    SC 8
    SD 0
    SD 8
    TN 11
    TN 2
    TX 1
    TX 50
    UT 0
    UT 14
    VA 10
    VA 28
    VT 1
    VT 4
    WA 29
    WA 8
    WI 0
    WI 12
    WV 0
    WV 8
    WY 1
    WY 11
     
    • Like x 1
  6. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    #666 Jeff N, Dec 30, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
    Wow, there is a bunch of confusion here.

    Not sure what that specifically means. The maps are accurate in that the sites do exist at those locations. Does EA still have reliability problems? Yes. But I’ve charged at several dozen EA sites in the western US (many of them on multiple occasions at different times of the year) on many road trips and I’ve only failed to get a charge and had to stay overnight at a hotel unexpectedly once. I have had failures with one or two stalls and had to switch to get a charge on way too many occasions.

    The same was true of many 4-stall Supercharger sites in middle America back in the day when there were many fewer Tesla cars on the road. This will change quickly as more car models from more makers hit the market in the next 2-3 years. Not having to fight over charging stalls right now is a good thing.

    I think Taycan is the only one right now but the Audi e-tron GT is happening soon and that is based on the 800V Taycan powertrain (I think offhand). I’m pretty sure Lucid is 800V. Rivian was originally 400V but that could have changed recently... I’m not sure. I assume there will soon be multiple high-end 800V models with larger batteries charging at 200 kW or more.

    EA does not have any single stall 350 kW sites, as far as I know. Essentially all of their highway sites have two 350 kW stalls. Some of these sites are urban locations. All EA rural locations have two 350 kW stalls and at least two additional 150 kW stalls.

    Essentially all newer-generation chargers support up to at least 920V and that certainly includes all EA chargers — even their 50 kW stalls (except for the small number of EVgo-hosted units that EA paid for very early on).

    So, the Taycan charges at the peak power output on 50 kW or 150 kW EA stalls. The Taycan’s onboard DC voltage booster is only used when charging on older-generation chargers that almost universally support a peak of 50 kW (a tiny number support 100 kW but none in North America as far as I know).

    I wrote about this here:
    Should Porsche Taycan buyers pay for the 150 kW “DC charger” option?


    EA has similar manufacturer pre-paid charging plans with other car makers and I assume more will be done in the future. For example, Ford includes a limited amount of “free” DC charging at EA with each Mach-e.

    Of the 30-something operational EA sites around the SF Bay Area, the Novato and Livermore locations also support 350 kW. The vast majority are 150 kW and a few are 50 kW locations.

    Except that are basically no chargers that are limited to 500V but can supply 150 kW. They simply don’t exist. There are a tiny number of such chargers installed in Europe and that’s about it. That option is waste of money.

    Nope, there are no artificial limitations on the Taycan.

    EA does not implement power splitting even though BTC and perhaps other equipment theoretically supports it. Tesla is moving away from power splitting as well. It’s urban 72 kW stalls and I’m pretty sure it’s 250 kW V3 stalls (oops, I was wrong about V3) all have dedicated charging cabinets up to their full capability.
     
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  7. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    Actually they don't. A single V3 cabinet supports 4 stalls and only has ~350kW of AC input power to split between them. However, it also has a ~575kW DC bus to share power between cabinets and/or battery packs. So a standalone cabinet can supply 4 stalls ~90kW each on its own, or ~230kW per stall if it can take full advantage of the DC bus.
     
    • Informative x 3
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  8. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    Thanks for that info. I haven’t had a chance to closely inspect the charging cabinets yet in person although I have seen the V3 stall dispensers.
     
  9. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    A couple of clarifications...

    All EA Highway sites have at least 4 stalls — so two are 350 kW and at least two others are 150 kW. On popular highways near urban areas there can be as many as ten stalls (although I think there may be a 12 stall location somewhere).

    Urban sites typically have three 150 kW stalls although some early installations have 50 kW stalls. Some newer urban sites may have up to six stalls.

    The tiny number of chargers limited to 500V that support greater than 50 kW only support 100 kW. I’m not aware of any 150 kW chargers that are limited to 500V.
     
  10. Candleflame

    Candleflame Active Member

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    in aus we are lucky to have 1 stall 50kw chargers.
     
  11. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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    The critical question... how many EA chargers are currently working on any given day? :cool:
     
    • Funny x 1
  12. RubberToe

    RubberToe Supporting the greater good

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    And along the lines of: If a tree falls in the forest, and there is no one there to hear it, did it really make a noise...

    If an EA charger is not working, but there is no one actually trying to charge, did it really fail? :D

    RT
     
    • Funny x 5
  13. Billyk24

    Billyk24 Member

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    Critical question also-how many Superchargers are working or outputting what they claim to do?
     
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  14. Feathermerchan

    Feathermerchan Active Member

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    Well if you have a Tesla, you can see on the screen. If you're navigating the car will tell skip any non-functional Superchargers. And if you're navigating (driving), across the country for instance, the car will tell you in real time that a Supercharger has quit working and re-route you.
     
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  15. jerry33

    jerry33 (S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20

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    Having taken over 75K miles of Tesla road trips during the past eight years. I have had one instance of where they were not working. In that case the entire town's electricity was out so gas vehicles also lined up. Electricity came back online about an hour after we arrived. This is just a non-issue.
     
    • Like x 3
  16. Billyk24

    Billyk24 Member

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    • Funny x 1
  17. Feathermerchan

    Feathermerchan Active Member

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    Uh Troll
     
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  18. Big Earl

    Big Earl bnkwupt

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    I just got back from a 13,000 mile road trip. Nearly all of them.
     
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  19. alloverx

    alloverx Member

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    Now whether the older Tesla's get a high charging rate is another question but its clear that that Tesla have the best and simplest charging network in the world.
     
    • Like x 2
  20. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    #680 cwerdna, Jan 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
    Here's another problem with SAE Combo/Combo1:

    Look at the current 1st pic at PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You and the check-in by BarBoltEV on 1/8/21. He says:
    I actually know him from charging station encounters when he only had a Bolt. He now has a Taycan so he's enjoying his free 3 years of 30 minutes at a time sessions on Electrify America (since EA is VW of America owned and VW owns Porsche).
     

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