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Electrify America Fast Chargers - Huh?

Discussion in 'Supercharging & Charging Infrastructure' started by minderbinder, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. ℬête Noire

    ℬête Noire Active Member

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    Bolt EV will not take that much on. They can take on 80kW peak but not for very long. GM's own materials claim "90 miles in 30 minutes", that's only about 45kW average. When the battery is near empty, and ending with it only about 40% full. Past that it gets much, much worse.[​IMG]
    So no, it's above gasoline prices even in optimal scenarios (as opposed to starting at above 50% or trying to take it up to 80% much less near full for a large jump or maybe the vehicle BMS trips thermal limiting due to hot weather or coming off hard driving).

    As for the faster draw vehicles that will some day come, I fully expect EA to introduce multiple tier pricing to extract gasoline prices from them, too. There's been a statement from a VW exec that they expect their customers to pay as much as they do for gasoline now. From the very start this was envisioned to be a profit center that they'd extract as much as the customer would endure the pain (having already bought the vehicle), rather than an enabler of BEVs.
     
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  2. yuhong

    yuhong Member

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    Personally I would fix by changing to per kWh in the states that allow it. Then I would suggest charging less than gasoline but not dramatically less. Audi e-tron does seem to come with some amount of free Electrify America charging BTW.
     
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  3. yuhong

    yuhong Member

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    What is fun is that different EA chargers have different arrangements, some have the ports on the sides not the front.
     
  4. jboy210

    jboy210 Supporting Member

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    If nothing else these are the coolest looking chargers. Especially at night. Here is a shot of one of the 12 at the SF Outlet Mall in Livermore, CA. There are 20 Urban Superchargers right next to these guys. But you can see the Electrify America chargers from a long ways away.
    elec-America-charger-small.jpg
     
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  5. mociaf9

    mociaf9 Active Member

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    Personally, I think it's horribly garish. But personal taste is neither here nor there. Unfortunately the reason why it's a terrible idea is that Planning/Zoning/Design Review Boards all across the country are going to have to sign off on these in order to get them installed. So long as EA is only installing in Walmart parking lots and major commercial centers/malls it probably doesn't matter that much. But if they ever try to branch out to smaller locations these will be a continual source of extra hassle. Or they'll just have to drop the lighting in those locations. As an example of the potential problem, Tesla occasionally runs into issues over their use of the red lighted "TESLA" letters on the 120 kW charger stalls. If you compare that with these EA chargers.... I'm sure it's helpful for locating the chargers when you've never been there before. And they'll have "good" branding. But between being very obtrusive to non-EV drivers and, IMO, therefore more likely to attract negative attention and the added hassles they'll likely face with getting permits I don't think it's worth it.
     
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  6. ℬête Noire

    ℬête Noire Active Member

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    But that'd only encourage further adoption of BEVs by the public as it plays up their inherent lower operating costs. Are you stark raving mad???
     
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  7. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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    More detailed information from Electrek... https://electrek.co/2018/12/06/electrify-america-first-350kw-charger-california/

    Yesterday, Electrify America opened California’s first 350kW quick charge location. The bank of chargers includes nine CCS plugs and one CCS-CHAdeMO plug, and while most of them have an already-quick 150kW rate, two CCS plugs are capable of ultra-fast 350kW charging.
    The charger is installed at the San Francisco Premium Outlets in Livermore, CA, which also happens to be a Tesla Supercharger location.


    [​IMG]
     
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  8. more863-also

    more863-also Member

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    It's so funny how even an EV rag still misinforms people that you can use both those nozzles at once. And lol at some chargers at the station being capable of higher rates than others.

    Also I only see 8 handles there total, not 9 CCS and 1 CHAdeMO, let alone the fact that it's actually a four car station.
     
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  9. miimura

    miimura Well-Known Member

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    Where does it say that? There are actually 10 chargers. 9 stations have dual CCS plugs and the last station has one CCS plug and one CHAdeMO plug. The bigger mistake is using a render as the top image when there are pictures around of the actual site. Getting permission to use something other than a PR image may take more work though.
     
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  10. more863-also

    more863-also Member

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    Can I see a picture of these ten chargers? Or is this more EA vaporware BS?
     
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  11. miimura

    miimura Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    picture from Plugshare.
     
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  12. miimura

    miimura Well-Known Member

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    That's funny. I just noticed the only car there is a Leaf at the one CHAdeMO plug.
     
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  13. more863-also

    more863-also Member

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    About time EA put more than 2 - 4 chargers somewhere like they do in Colorado. Now to let these rot as the only cars that can use them are rare as hell. Not that they would use them at those prices anyways
     
  14. Feathermerchan

    Feathermerchan Active Member

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    In the first post $6.94 for 13.1 kWh is $0.53 per kWh. Hardly a bargain.
     
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  15. miimura

    miimura Well-Known Member

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    If I had an iPace or a Kona EV or some other future CCS car that could charge at 75kW+, I would pay extra to use these and get back on the road sooner than the EVgo chargers that are more common. However, on a car that can only charge as fast as the EVgo chargers, there's no reason to pay the higher fee.
     
  16. more863-also

    more863-also Member

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    350kW is a total joke anyways, mark my words that a Taycan will be able to charge at that rate for about 2 minutes before taper kicks in. How much faster is it than a v2 SC considering taper bites so hard?

    At least it makes that insane rate a little more easily stomached. It's more than twice the SC rate in Colorado.
     
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  17. miimura

    miimura Well-Known Member

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    Taycan isn't going to charge anywhere near 350kW. It's more like 250kW. 275kW tops. I'm sure the Tesla Roadster 2020 will charge at 250kW also.
     
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  18. more863-also

    more863-also Member

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    No one has ever been able to explain to me why making a tiny portion of your charge cycle faster matters, like, at all.
     
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  19. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    Arguably, the first ten minutes are by far the most important part. That's the "bathroom and snack break" time - and if the car can get enough range for a couple hours of driving in it, there's really not much need for more than that.

    As it is, I have to alternate that with a longer sit down meal type break, which isn't always conveniently timed and the places by the Supercharger aren't always well suited for it.

    Most of the time it works out pretty well, but not always, and having more flexibility granted by a faster first five/ten minutes world be really helpful sometimes.
     
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  20. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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    You're making the same mistake as a number of Bolt DCFC optimists did.
    The 80kW reference to the charger, which is the next step up from lower 50kW units.

    80kW is 400V x 200A or 500V x 160A, which can both provide the maximum current the Bolt can take, which is 160A. Pack voltage maxes out somewhere around 350V.

    50kW units are 500V x 100A or 400V x 125A. The 500V x 100A units are particularly annoying for BEV owners.


    The maximum anyone has seen with a Bolt is 55-56kW.
     
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