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Electrify America Fast Chargers - Huh?

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tl;dr: These stations are for ~90kWh CCS EVs. And they’re very much at the “our company’s first attempt at doing this” stage.

Current owner of a 2016 Model X and a 2019 I-PACE chiming in.

Wow, so much hate here for these EA charging stations.

In the first place, my own experience with Tesla superchargers hasn't been exactly great. When I took my Model X on a road trip during a hot July (80-90F), I had one SC in Superior, Montana entirely fail on me. I got something like, "Sorry, can't charge now." Support said it wasn't my car. Limped on to the next SC, which only gave me about 45kW max. But it wasn't just that SC; it was every SC across east Washington, Idaho, Montana, and Utah. Once in a while when there happened to be another Tesla at the station, the driver would ask me if I was getting low charge numbers too. Another one of the few times I went to a SC was coming back from the solar eclipse in northern Oregon. There was a ridiculous line to use the Centralia, Washington SC. But that was an exceptional event, and I imagine the gas stations were pretty clogged up too. I guess what few experiences I've had with SC stations have sort of biased me, and I'm sure it's not the common experience among Tesla owners.

I've taken the I-PACE to an EA station in North Bend, Washington a couple of times. The first time, I plugged in at station -02. I had to nose up all the way to the wheel stop for the cable to reach, and then I had to muscle the nozzle at what felt like a 90-degree angle from what I felt the cable wanted to be at. I was a little nervous about whether that hard pull at an angle might somehow damage the charge port on my car. Anyway, I had no clue what to do next. My car had the notification, "Initialising." All the user interfaces on the car, including the voice giving the turn-by-turn directions, are delightfully British. There was this weird animation on the card reader (which had its own separate small color LCD screen) that seemed to be beckoning me to push some button or tap something on the bigger touchscreen.

I felt like an idiot tapping around and pushing buttons, to no avail. Then I just tried sticking my card in the reader. Something changed for a minute, but the touchscreen just stayed where it was. That's when I called support.

Apparently what was supposed to happen was that the station would detect that I plugged in my car and change to another screen telling me how much I’d be paying and to swipe or insert my card. The station never detected that I plugged in my car. If the station doesn’t detect that you’ve plugged in your car, it just sits there with a blank screen, leaving you wondering what on earth is going on.

The rep rebooted the station remotely. Since I’m a Linux hacker, I was delighted to see all the boot time messages about the WiFi network device, the AutoSSH2 tunnel with a reverse shell, and so forth. I wondered just how secure the whole thing is. It took a while to finish booting. I swear that machine was slower than whatever’s in my 2016 Model X. Anyway, it didn’t work after rebooting. The rep advised me to move to another station.

I went to station -04, which was the other 350kW CCS charger. Things went much better there. The station instantly detected that I’d plugged in, told me I’d be charged $1.00 and then $.30 per minute, and asked me to use the payment thingy with that small color LCD screen. It was cycling through a bunch of screens, including the inexplicable one showing animations of fingers pushing mystery buttons, and then one of the screens showed the Google Pay logo. I excitedly unlocked my phone and held it up to the screen, and nothing happened. Okay, so maybe not.

Anyway, I slid my chip-and-PIN card into the bottom of the reader, my bank alerted me that a $50 hold had been put on my account, and we were in business. I was already at 80%, so I pulled 30kW for a few minutes before I unplugged and went home to do something more interesting with my life.

I visited again a week later, this time after I had let the battery run down through the week. I was at 27% when I arrived at the charger. I went straight for station -04 again and plugged in. Again, it worked right away. Charged from 27% to 72% (about 35kW) in half an hour. My card got charged about $10. That gives me a little less than 100 miles of range, given how I drive. If I accelerated slower and lowered my top speed to 55mph, I figure I’d probably get more like 110 miles out of 35kW.

Jaguar is being conservative with the rate they're letting the first generation I-PACEs charge at too. Mine's currently capped at 80kW, although I've read somewhere that I can bring it in to the service center and get an update to raise the cap to 100kW. Since I didn’t drop below 80kW until 50%, I figure I’d do better (22 or 23 minutes?) if I rolled in with 10% and charged to 60% with 100kW charging unlocked. I figure I’d only pay about $8 for that.

When charging starts, the station prompts you for your phone number so they can text you before they start charging you idle fees. I started tapping in my phone number, but nothing happened. After 5 seconds (I’m not exaggerating), the number I typed showed up on the screen. I quickly typed out the rest of my number (with no feedback as I tapped away), and about 7 seconds later, it suddenly all appeared on the screen. The animation on the charging level indicator bar struggled to updated smoothly.

In total, it feels to me like the EA station was rushed to market under some insane deadline. Most of the problems would have been found and fixed if there had been a proper Alpha/Beta/GA release cadence. Instead I feel like I’m getting an “Alpha” experience when I use the stations. I feel I can rely on station -04 at North Bend to keep me going eastbound toward Cle Elum (60 miles away) or Ellensburg (80 miles away), which both have CCS chargers. But just barely.

But who am I kidding? Tesla is still footing the bill when I charge my 2016 Model X, so that’s what I’ll use for my (very) occasional road trips. I just gotta make sure it isn’t 90 degrees outside.
 

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News update from today:

https://elam-cms-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/inline-files/Electrify America Announces Mobile App Membership Price Reduction.pdf

Mobile app to be released later this month, and some updates about pricing. Press coverage says that they now have about 160 locations operational.

Interestingly the app (and the displays on the charger) will supposedly show the state-of-charge of vehicles currently charging, so you can see which ones will be finished soon. How does that work? Does CCS signal the SoC from the car to the charger?
 
News update from today:

https://elam-cms-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/inline-files/Electrify America Announces Mobile App Membership Price Reduction.pdf

Mobile app to be released later this month, and some updates about pricing. Press coverage says that they now have about 160 locations operational.

Interestingly the app (and the displays on the charger) will supposedly show the state-of-charge of vehicles currently charging, so you can see which ones will be finished soon. How does that work? Does CCS signal the SoC from the car to the charger?

CCS uses digital communication to pass lots of data back and forth, just like Superchargers do. I've seen lots of videos with the charger screen showing the car's SoC, so presumably that's among the data passed. Not sure I'm a fan of it being up online for all to see, though I'm not positive it'll cause an immediate problem.
 
Significantly more costly than Supercharging... Electrify America announces new app, membership plans, pricing structure

The Electrify America Pass membership will include the standard per-minute cost of charging, plus a $1 session fee. Pass+ will have a $4 monthly subscription fee. It promises the lowest per-minute price, and Electrify America says members will receive an added discount off of standard pricing. Electrify America’s new pricing structure is based on three power levels: 0-75 kW, 76kW-125 kW, and 126kW-350kW. The charging network notes that pricing is by the minute, and the per-minute costs will be determined both by the power level the car is capable of charging at, and the state where the charger is located.


Electrify America lists its current pricing as $0.30/minute to $0.35/minute, on top of the $1 session fee. Ars Technica reports the new standard cost should be less than $0.30/minute for the slowest rate, and those who charge through an OEM-negotiated program (Audi, Porsche, and Lucid owners thus far) should pay less. Exact pricing should be out around the same time as the app and new membership options, later in May.
 
Significantly more costly than Supercharging... Electrify America announces new app, membership plans, pricing structure

The Electrify America Pass membership will include the standard per-minute cost of charging, plus a $1 session fee. Pass+ will have a $4 monthly subscription fee. It promises the lowest per-minute price, and Electrify America says members will receive an added discount off of standard pricing. Electrify America’s new pricing structure is based on three power levels: 0-75 kW, 76kW-125 kW, and 126kW-350kW. The charging network notes that pricing is by the minute, and the per-minute costs will be determined both by the power level the car is capable of charging at, and the state where the charger is located.


Electrify America lists its current pricing as $0.30/minute to $0.35/minute, on top of the $1 session fee. Ars Technica reports the new standard cost should be less than $0.30/minute for the slowest rate, and those who charge through an OEM-negotiated program (Audi, Porsche, and Lucid owners thus far) should pay less. Exact pricing should be out around the same time as the app and new membership options, later in May.


So if I had an adaptor and added 45 kw ( ~20 to 80 soc) at the middle cost for .30/minute. actual cost is dependent on the rate of charge? What would that be for a Model 3, mr if this is dcfc? Or do we know?
 
Except there is no adapter.
I read that they have not releases rates yet. Have no idea if they will be unified rate across US or regional or local.
It will be interesting to see what happens when competition springs up.
Also be interesting to see if we ever get kWh pricing. Laws will have to be changed.
 
CCS uses digital communication to pass lots of data back and forth, just like Superchargers do. I've seen lots of videos with the charger screen showing the car's SoC, so presumably that's among the data passed. Not sure I'm a fan of it being up online for all to see, though I'm not positive it'll cause an immediate problem.
Of course there is a handshake, but I wasn't aware that the SoC is communicated. I wonder what European Model 3s show on chargers if there is a charge limit <100% selected? Anyway, I don't see a problem with it. Should be useful to estimate the wait time.
 
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And another thing where the charger recognizes your car and you no longer need a card.
Yep. And even if your car doesn't support it, it's as easy as tapping your phone to the charger since they support Apple Pay/Google Pay. I use this often with Chargepoint (you can store their membership "card" in Apple Wallet) and it's no trouble at all. I also like that you can use the chargers without having to sign up for an account.
 
I've been keeping an eye on the EA build-out, and here's some numbers:

As of right now, I count that they have 172 sites open. Their rate of installation appears to be increasing:
  • Over the year to date they've averaged 0.85 stations opened per day (6/day)
  • Over the last month they opened 30 stations for a rate of 1 per day
  • Over the last two weeks have averaged 1.5 stations per day.
Plugshare shows 344 sites marked on their map. I looked at their entries for as many as I could, and found the following data:
  • 172 open (as noted)
  • 80 have charger pedestals mounted, this includes those that are awaiting commissioning, those in need of utility transformers, and those that just have the chargers erected but are still in the process of finishing paving.
  • 19 are currently in trenching phases--either digging the trenches, laying conduit, or refilling the trench and setting up to pour bases for the pedestals.
  • 68 were pre-trench or lacked sufficient data in images or check-ins to figure out status.
In the course of looking nationwide, my total count of stations is only 339. I'm pretty confident in my count of opened stations, meaning it's likely an issue in the state-by-state count of construction site statuses. In other words, I think I didn't click on or missed counting five construction sites--not sure which category they fall into.

Their pipeline seems to be both robust and holding up to their build rate. According to numbers in their annual report, at the end of 2018 they had about 160 stations somewhere between construction and commissioning; today that number is probably about 120--a good number of what I counted as "unknown/pre-trench" had equipment on site and fences up to begin work, often in outdated images or check-ins. They continue to have a good mix of stations nearly complete and those just starting construction, and in December they said they had contracts executed at 322 sites and design in progress for 297 of those. Thus, I'd anticipate them continuing to average a station a day or more for the summer at least as they complete the ~100 stations that have at least some trenching and certainly as they bring online the 80 stations that have chargers mounted. That would put them pretty solidly on track for having 300 stations open sometime this year, though if they'll reach as many as 350 or 400 this year is more of a tossup and depends on how well they can hold their pace. Completing and commissioning 1 station per day for the rest of the year would give them ~380, but there's a lot of factors that could prevent reaching that.

Either way, in their first 18 months of operation EA seems on track to match the size of the Tesla US network after the first four years of Supercharger construction. An American CCS adapter seems to be a more and more essential peripheral from Tesla--by the end of the year at least 30% of US high power charging stations will be CCS just counting EA and that is likely to increase as EA continues their build cycle over the next few years.
 
I've been keeping an eye on the EA build-out, and here's some numbers:

As of right now, I count that they have 172 sites open. Their rate of installation appears to be increasing:
  • Over the year to date they've averaged 0.85 stations opened per day (6/day)
  • Over the last month they opened 30 stations for a rate of 1 per day
  • Over the last two weeks have averaged 1.5 stations per day.
Plugshare shows 344 sites marked on their map. I looked at their entries for as many as I could, and found the following data:
  • 172 open (as noted)
  • 80 have charger pedestals mounted, this includes those that are awaiting commissioning, those in need of utility transformers, and those that just have the chargers erected but are still in the process of finishing paving.
  • 19 are currently in trenching phases--either digging the trenches, laying conduit, or refilling the trench and setting up to pour bases for the pedestals.
  • 68 were pre-trench or lacked sufficient data in images or check-ins to figure out status.
In the course of looking nationwide, my total count of stations is only 339. I'm pretty confident in my count of opened stations, meaning it's likely an issue in the state-by-state count of construction site statuses. In other words, I think I didn't click on or missed counting five construction sites--not sure which category they fall into.

Their pipeline seems to be both robust and holding up to their build rate. According to numbers in their annual report, at the end of 2018 they had about 160 stations somewhere between construction and commissioning; today that number is probably about 120--a good number of what I counted as "unknown/pre-trench" had equipment on site and fences up to begin work, often in outdated images or check-ins. They continue to have a good mix of stations nearly complete and those just starting construction, and in December they said they had contracts executed at 322 sites and design in progress for 297 of those. Thus, I'd anticipate them continuing to average a station a day or more for the summer at least as they complete the ~100 stations that have at least some trenching and certainly as they bring online the 80 stations that have chargers mounted. That would put them pretty solidly on track for having 300 stations open sometime this year, though if they'll reach as many as 350 or 400 this year is more of a tossup and depends on how well they can hold their pace. Completing and commissioning 1 station per day for the rest of the year would give them ~380, but there's a lot of factors that could prevent reaching that.

Either way, in their first 18 months of operation EA seems on track to match the size of the Tesla US network after the first four years of Supercharger construction. An American CCS adapter seems to be a more and more essential peripheral from Tesla--by the end of the year at least 30% of US high power charging stations will be CCS just counting EA and that is likely to increase as EA continues their build cycle over the next few years.

Good on them, of course they are under court ordered settlement. While I haven't tried to do a very complete survey at all, but most of those I've looked at on plugshare seem to have 1 or 2 booths. Lots of stations, but not a lot of capacity compared to the sc network in which the smallest installation I know of is 6 booths, and lots seem to be 8-16.
 
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tl;dr: These stations are for ~90kWh CCS EVs. And they’re very much at the “our company’s first attempt at doing this” stage.


I visited again a week later, this time after I had let the battery run down through the week. I was at 27% when I arrived at the charger. I went straight for station -04 again and plugged in. Again, it worked right away. Charged from 27% to 72% (about 35kW) in half an hour. My card got charged about $10. That gives me a little less than 100 miles of range, given how I drive. If I accelerated slower and lowered my top speed to 55mph, I figure I’d probably get more like 110 miles out of 35kW.



So based on this you paid about 29 cents per KW about 7 cents more than TESLA...

from what i have read i find it uprisings that you are averaging 350 watts per mile for the ipace... can you provide any more actual data on your average use? that suggests its more efficent than the X, which all accounts suggest otherwise. curious
 
I've been keeping an eye on the EA build-out, and here's some numbers:

As of right now, I count that they have 172 sites open. Their rate of installation appears to be increasing:
  • Over the year to date they've averaged 0.85 stations opened per day (6/day)
  • Over the last month they opened 30 stations for a rate of 1 per day
  • Over the last two weeks have averaged 1.5 stations per day.
Plugshare shows 344 sites marked on their map. I looked at their entries for as many as I could, and found the following data:
  • 172 open (as noted)
  • 80 have charger pedestals mounted, this includes those that are awaiting commissioning, those in need of utility transformers, and those that just have the chargers erected but are still in the process of finishing paving.
  • 19 are currently in trenching phases--either digging the trenches, laying conduit, or refilling the trench and setting up to pour bases for the pedestals.
  • 68 were pre-trench or lacked sufficient data in images or check-ins to figure out status.
In the course of looking nationwide, my total count of stations is only 339. I'm pretty confident in my count of opened stations, meaning it's likely an issue in the state-by-state count of construction site statuses. In other words, I think I didn't click on or missed counting five construction sites--not sure which category they fall into.

Their pipeline seems to be both robust and holding up to their build rate. According to numbers in their annual report, at the end of 2018 they had about 160 stations somewhere between construction and commissioning; today that number is probably about 120--a good number of what I counted as "unknown/pre-trench" had equipment on site and fences up to begin work, often in outdated images or check-ins. They continue to have a good mix of stations nearly complete and those just starting construction, and in December they said they had contracts executed at 322 sites and design in progress for 297 of those. Thus, I'd anticipate them continuing to average a station a day or more for the summer at least as they complete the ~100 stations that have at least some trenching and certainly as they bring online the 80 stations that have chargers mounted. That would put them pretty solidly on track for having 300 stations open sometime this year, though if they'll reach as many as 350 or 400 this year is more of a tossup and depends on how well they can hold their pace. Completing and commissioning 1 station per day for the rest of the year would give them ~380, but there's a lot of factors that could prevent reaching that.

Either way, in their first 18 months of operation EA seems on track to match the size of the Tesla US network after the first four years of Supercharger construction. An American CCS adapter seems to be a more and more essential peripheral from Tesla--by the end of the year at least 30% of US high power charging stations will be CCS just counting EA and that is likely to increase as EA continues their build cycle over the next few years.

Good information. I believe as of the end of June this year, EA will be 30 months into their first 2.5 year deployment. July starts the second 2.5 year cycle. It just took them longer to get the "ball rolling" cause they started from essentially zero on January 1 2017. See the other thread I started for the early EA discussion of the consent decree.

Think you meant 6/week not 6/day in the first bullet.

Should be interesting to read through their "end of cycle" report to see if they identify how much use the stations are actually getting. I have not been following this as closely as I used to. In any case, its absolutely great news that this is rolling out at such a rapid clip finally.

RT
 
While I haven't tried to do a very complete survey at all, but most of those I've looked at on plugshare seem to have 1 or 2 booths.
The cycle 1 plan for this year covers 484 sites with over 2000 chargers, meaning the average number of chargers per site is around 4. In a few popular locations they have up to 12 chargers, I believe.
 
Think you meant 6/week not 6/day in the first bullet.
Yes I did, just a typo. :)

Good on them, of course they are under court ordered settlement. While I haven't tried to do a very complete survey at all, but most of those I've looked at on plugshare seem to have 1 or 2 booths. Lots of stations, but not a lot of capacity compared to the sc network in which the smallest installation I know of is 6 booths, and lots seem to be 8-16.

The cycle 1 plan for this year covers 484 sites with over 2000 chargers, meaning the average number of chargers per site is around 4. In a few popular locations they have up to 12 chargers, I believe.
As Eno Deb says, the more typical site I seem to see is 4-6 per site. A site in Cincinnati I checked in person last week had 10 pedestals. I'd say the average site is very comparable in size to the Supercharger sites.
 
You can find some usage information for 2018 in this slide deck (slides 10-12).

Thanks, when I was looking at this slide I had to study it for a bit since I thought I was misunderstanding it...

newea1_zpsm3zkeepq.jpg


In May through December 2018, there were 190 total charging sessions in California? :eek:

The next slide provides some hope that things are on the upswing though:

newea2_zpsebtj6zn6.jpg


The 22,729 is kWh of energy delivered in the entire country. Lets compare that to Tesla's Supercharger network. This thread has info on the display screen at the Kettleman City Supercharger lounge:

Top 10 Superchargers based on Tesla screen at Kettleman City and other locations

I went back and checked some data I added back in August 2018 covering a 42 hour period. Total kWh delivered in 42 hours was 2, 090,939, or about 49,784 kWh delivered per hour.

So for comparison, the Tesla Supercharger network (worldwide) delivered more than twice as much energy in 1 hour (49,784 kWh) back in August 2018 than the EA network in the U.S. did in May through December 2018 (22,729 kWh).

I would suggest that anyone comparing the EA network to the Supercharger network (i.e. "EA seems on track to match the size of the Tesla US network after the first four years of Supercharger construction") include total energy delivered as part of the comparison.

RT
 
In May through December 2018, there were 190 total charging sessions in California? :eek:
This is not particularly surprising. There is only a small number of operational EA sites in California right now (and there were even less in 2018). On their map I currently count 9 (!) in the entire state. When including sites that are "coming soon", I count about 50. According to one of their reports CA lags behind other states is in part because the permitting process takes longer. Keep in mind that they started only about a year ago.
So for comparison, the Tesla Supercharger network (worldwide) delivered more than twice as much energy in 1 hour (49,784 kWh) back in August 2018 than the EA network in the U.S. did in May through December 2018 (22,729 kWh).
I would suggest that anyone comparing the EA network to the Supercharger network (i.e. "EA seems on track to match the size of the Tesla US network after the first four years of Supercharger construction") include total energy delivered as part of the comparison.
That's not too surprising either, given that there are currently far fewer cars with CCS than Teslas in the US. Doesn't really say anything about the state of the network.