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Electrify America Fast Chargers - Huh?
- Thread starter minderbinder
- Start date
Eno Deb
Active Member
So, the app and the new tiered pricing information are now available. Unfortunately it's expensive, even with the $4 monthly "Pass+" subscription. The tiers are for charge powers up to 75kW/125kW/150kW respectively. I looked up the rates for California and Texas:
California:
Without Pass+: $0.25/0.69/0.99 per minute
With Pass+: $0.18/0.50/0.70 per minute
Texas:
Without Pass+: $0.21/0.58/0.89 per minute
With Pass+: $0.15/$0.42/$0.60 per minute
At those prices it would at best be an emergency option for Tesla drivers with a potential CCS adapter IMO. Too bad.
California:
Without Pass+: $0.25/0.69/0.99 per minute
With Pass+: $0.18/0.50/0.70 per minute
Texas:
Without Pass+: $0.21/0.58/0.89 per minute
With Pass+: $0.15/$0.42/$0.60 per minute
At those prices it would at best be an emergency option for Tesla drivers with a potential CCS adapter IMO. Too bad.
ralph142
Member
Eno Deb
Active Member
It's right in the post.
Made some quick plots comparing the EA prices with Supercharger prices, all converted to $/kWh depending on the charge power. For the superchargers I used the rates from Tesla's web site ($0.28/kWh, $0.13/0.26 per minute in states with per-minute charging). If you stay between 50 and 75kW it's actually not bad (good for owners of the Tesla Chademo adapter, I guess).
Once the CCS adapter comes out you could actually throttle your car to 74kw charge speed, to get the most bang for your buck.
Sure, if such a thing was possible. Today, the driver has no control over the DC charging process. You can only adjust the amps on AC charging.
Eno Deb
Active Member
It gets worse. Just noticed this on their web page:
So each car will be charged based on the maximum power they can accept, not at what power you actually charge ...
So each car will be charged based on the maximum power they can accept, not at what power you actually charge ...
It is not reasonable to charge based on what the car can take if the charger never actually delivers that. However, it seems that if you do actually exceed 75kW for 2 minutes, they will charge you the higher rate for the entire session, which is plenty bad enough. Depending on how long you need to charge, you should disconnect to stop the higher price and pay the session fee again to get enough charge to make it to your destination or the next charging stop.
Eno Deb
Active Member
On their web site it sounds like the car tells the charger the maximum power it can accept during the initial handshake before the session starts. If that's the case, you'll be placed in that tier even if you never reach the maximum (if you're in a SoC where the taper has started).
If the car SOC is in the taper region, it will tell the charger the charging current it wants based on that taper, so the charger will never see a higher value that may be possible at a lower SOC.
Eno Deb
Active Member
I sure hope you are right, but I'm not so certain. For example, if you look at the Tesla charge curve, the power is also limited at the low end and only reaches the maximum at 10-15%. So if the car starts charging below the maximum and that's what's used to set the power tier, you'd potentially be placed in a lower tier and the charger would never allow you to reach the actual maximum.
Here's what their web site says:
Of course, EA could do stupid things in their software. However, if you plug in a Tesla at 2%, it will likely start at about 50kW, then ramp up to some maximum power at or above 100kW, depending on your vehicle. The logical thing would be for the charger to bill the entire session at the highest rate band that the charger actually delivered, whether it was exactly at the session initiation or not.
This whole discussion is kind of pointless for Tesla owners though. The only way to plug in and charge at an EA site today is with a Model S or Model X with a CHAdeMO adapter that is limited to 50kW. The CHAdeMO port on the EA chargers are also limited to 50kW even though they have promised to increase it in the future "after further testing". Even after a CCS adapter is released by Tesla, most sane Tesla owners would only use it if there is no Supercharger available where they need to charge. For non-Tesla owners, they may not have any choice because EA will be the only stations available above 50kW for the forseeable future.
I just posted an article about the new app and prices. As someone noted earlier, they can be quite reasonable for someone the CHAdeMO adapter with an S or X.
Electrify America releases new app, big price changes
Electrify America releases new app, big price changes
EA needs to charge more for higher power levels because of utility demand charges. So, even if they could charge by the kWh everywhere, they would still need to charge a premium for high power.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
The EA price structure is a bit insane... almost $1.00 per minute in California for 150kW charging!
It seems that VW is going to make this a big profit center to recover part of their Diesel-gate fines.
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FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
The EA fees are still significantly (2x - 4x) higher than Tesla Supercharging...
Tesla no longer has “free” DC Supercharging for most of its new car buyers. In California (and the US generally) it now charges $.28 per kWh. In states that do not allow electricity to be sold by non-utilities using a per-kWh price, Tesla charges $.26 per minute at power rates above 60 kW and $.13 at power rates below that. There is no per-session or subscription fee.
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FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
It's right in the post.
Made some quick plots comparing the EA prices with Supercharger prices, all converted to $/kWh depending on the charge power. For the superchargers, I used the rates from Tesla's web site ($0.28/kWh, $0.13/0.26 per minute in states with per-minute charging). If you stay between 50 and 75kW it's actually not bad (good for owners of the Tesla Chademo adapter, I guess).
View attachment 415064
View attachment 415063
The new EA charging fee is based on the maximum charging power capability of the vehicle without regard to the actual tapered value.
Electrify America’s new tiered plans query the vehicle for its maximum charging power rate when the car is first connected and use that to choose the per-minute pricing tier that will be used during the full duration of charging. So, a Jaguar I-PACE that can charge faster than 75 kW but has a peak rate under 125 kW will now pay $.69 per minute or with a Pass+ subscription, it will be $.50 per minute. An Audi e-tron, that can charge faster than 126 kW, will now pay $.99 per minute without a subscription or $.70 per minute with a Pass+ plan in California.
Yet, someone using the CHAdeMO adapter on EA Pass+ may often end up paying less than $.28 rate and on the non-subscription rate they would pay only slightly more. Hardly 2-4x.The EA fees are still significantly (2x - 4x) higher than Tesla Supercharging...
Tesla no longer has “free” DC Supercharging for most of its new car buyers. In California (and the US generally) it now charges $.28 per kWh. In states that do not allow electricity to be sold by non-utilities using a per-kWh price, Tesla charges $.26 per minute at power rates above 60 kW and $.13 at power rates below that. There is no per-session or subscription fee.
The Audi charges at around 150 kW up close to 80% state of charge. That’s 2.5 kWh per minute so at $.70 per minute it’s basically the same as Tesla’s $.28 per kWh.
Anyone doing any sort of regular charging of an Audi e-tron is better off paying the $4 per month subscription. Even a first 20 minute charge session would be essentially $21 non-subscription but with a subscription would be $14 and that $7 spread is more than the monthly $4....
It seems to me that the people who get screwed will be the middle tier with cars that can charge at just over 75 kW.
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