Electrify America Fast Chargers - Huh?

[brucet999]

Prior to COVID-19, I didn't work from home and I was on a TOU plan, E-6 (see pages 2 and 4 of https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-6.pdf). But due to COVID-19, I was required to WFH for months and pretty much at this point, there is no point in going to the office: almost none of my team is there so collaboration is no better and I don't want to be that guy who might catch or spread COVID from going there for no reason. So, I switched intentionally to E-1 since E-6 made no sense any longer.

E-6 is closed to new customers so I can't go back anyway. As for the bolded part, sure, see https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV2 (Sch).pdf pages 2 and 3. It's 16.67 cents/kWh off-peak but they kill you the rest of the day (33.5 to 47.9 cents/kWh).

Until I have a safe and effective COVID-19 vaccine in me, I need to WFH. I may need to run a space heater to keep myself warm while WFH (it can get into the low 50's inside at home in the winter) or run my "portable" AC unit during the summer on the hottest of days (e.g. when it gets above 100 F). In summer, sometimes in my house upstairs gets to above 95 F (I have no central AC). It gets pretty unpleasant at home when you're in the living room w/a high ceiling (ceiling goes to the top of 2 story house) and it hits 86 F and you're working w/a fan and your shirt off.

I don't like the idea of paying 47.9 cents/kWh when I work in "summer" and even worse when I have to run my portable AC. Ditto for 35.2 cents/kWh when working in "winter" when I may have to run a space heater (or have the the several hundred watt furnace fan motor running) besides the other inconveniences EV2-A causes. Looks like it is expensive every day except from 12:01 am until 2:59 pm.

Pre-COVID, I charged on free L2 at work. Had free L1 or L2 charging at work for over 7 years.

19 cents/kWh DC FC or (via DrivetheARC) 75% discount off 30 cents/minute EVgo DC FC or free EVgo is what I'm sticking with for now, instead of PG&E rates. There are a few other PG&E TOU plans for homes but none make any sense for my current situation.

Wow. High rates and arbitrary blackouts. PG&E really does suck.
My nephew in Marin is shopping for rooftop PV and PowerWalls so he can beat the high rates and protect himself with backup power during blackouts.

 

[cwerdna]

That is 0.18 cents per minute for the slowest DCFC charge rate.since the most vehicles with CHAdeMo ports are only 50kW max.

Was for 1 to 75 kW max charging rate. My Bolt maxes out at 55 kW on SAE Combo. Leaf Plus (CHAdeMO) I've heard of hitting 70ish kW on "50 kW" EA chargers. Scroll to middle of DaveinOlyWA: June 2020 Drive Report; How Roadtripping Is Done! to see 73 kW.

I haven't closely followed the chatter on MNL but it sounds like EA sometimes decides to turn on/off throttling of the "50 kW" CHAdeMO handle at some locations.

 

[Rocky_H]

That is 0.18 cents per minute for the slowest DCFC charge rate

[facepalm]
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that is really 18 cents per minute, rather than 0.18 cents. Verizon Math strikes again!
VerizonMath

 

[cwerdna]

Some (all?) folks who had submitted feedback to EA for their next phase got invited to a webinar that was on the morning of 12/9, including me.

It was too early in the morning for me, so I passed, esp. for someone who doesn't take many road trips and has barely ever charged w/them. I would've been too tired for either it or my actual day job (as a result) anyway. My day job is way more important. I hope they make a recording available, maybe if at least to those who registered.

That said, a Bolt fan did listen and posted some comments at Electrify America Outreach Webinar. Here was a key quote from him:

They also shared a key detail that explains a bit about how and why they've developed their network in the way they have. They are tasked EV infrastructure "investments" and with creating a self-sustaining network. Essentially, when their funding runs out, the network needs to be able operate profitably and sustainably. That explains why they've focused on higher traffic corridors with larger EV owning populations. One of the biggest threats to that long-term profitability and sustainability is demand fees. In one real-world example of a charging site in Utah, they are paying $8.55 per kWh dispensed after demand fees, and they are installing grid-tied batteries in order to offset those costs (they stated 80% or 90% of a charging station's costs are due to demand fees).

Whoops, here was a Tesla-related quote from him.

We both had a good chuckle that the only one of my questions that they addressed was whether EA would add Tesla plugs at their sites. They said they were considering it, but ultimately, they pushed that responsibility back on Tesla to provide their owners with a cheaper, easier to manage, higher quality CCS adapter like they do in Europe (which I think is correct).

 

[kayak1]

I said nothing about Tesla chargers. I was just responding to your claim that the EA locations were concentrated in the south and midwest and sparser in the northeast, which does not appear to be the case according to the Plugshare map.

Obviously the EA network isn't as well developed as the much older Tesla network at this point, but it should be absolutely sufficient e.g. to make roadtrips along the east cost and other routes.

I am still having issues with road trips places in Maine using a Tesla having a Chadamo adapter. EA hasn't helped the situation. as of now they have added one location in southern Maine that was already very close to an EVGo station.

 

[Billyk24]

Lets take a look at a map of the 200+kW chargers-Tesla and EA
Tesla:

EA:

 

[RubberToe]

Lets take a look at a map of the 200+kW chargers-Tesla and EA
Tesla: View attachment 621100

EA:
View attachment 621101

There are lies, damn lies, and finally EA DCFC maps.

RT

 

[Billyk24]

There are lies, damn lies, and finally EA DCFC maps.

RT

Sound like an elected politician.

 

[roblab]

Wow. High rates and arbitrary blackouts. PG&E really does suck.
My nephew in Marin is shopping for rooftop PV and PowerWalls so he can beat the high rates and protect himself with backup power during blackouts.

Hope he understands that even several powerwalls won't charge his Tesla, and that even MANY solar panels will hardly charge his powerwalls. Life's not fair. But if he's got the money to spend and the desire to save the planet, good for him. FWIW, I have 66 panels, and three v.1 PowerWalls, which hold maybe 20 kWh total, while my two cars hold maybe seven or eight times that. We do, at least, help lower our bills some, though less in winter. I wish I could upgrade to the newer PWIIs that hold more, but se la vie. I also am planning to upgrade my panels to some with more wattage. We'll see. I'm in Napa Valley, so i'd guess our solar insolation would be near the same.

 

[RubberToe]

Sound like an elected politician.

Go to the EA quarterly report and pull up the average number of charging stations per site. And follow that up with the usage statistics. Hint: EA chargers in middle America are covered with cobwebs. And it ain't a Halloween decoration

RT

 

[MP3Mike]

There are lies, damn lies, and finally EA DCFC maps.

Yep. I'm surprised he didn't choose 251kW as the cut-off so that the Tesla map would be blank. As far as I know there are very few vehicles available that can use even 200kW on the EA chargers. (Is the Taycan the only one?)

 

[Saghost]

Yep. I'm surprised he didn't choose 251kW as the cut-off so that the Tesla map would be blank. As far as I know there are very few vehicles available that can use even 200kW on the EA chargers. (Is the Taycan the only one?)

The only cars that can break 200 kW on EA chargers are the 800V cars, on the single 350 kW/1000V rated stall EA installs at each site.

Ironically, if that stall isn't available or isn't working, they charge slower than other cars, having to use an onboard transformer to get battery voltage from the 500V max of the other stalls. Taycan has a 50 kW transformer standard; a 150 kW version is optional.

I don't know what arrangements any of the other upcoming 800V cars (Lucid, Rivian, etc) have made.

 

[Billyk24]

Go to the EA quarterly report and pull up the average number of charging stations per site. And follow that up with the usage statistics. Hint: EA chargers in middle America are covered with cobwebs. And it ain't a Halloween decoration

RT

Middle America is aware that Tesla has stated a Supercharger would arrive soon in the UP of Michigan back in 2018 but...nothing has been done since the PR piece. The UP is a dead area for DCFC except for the newly arrived CCS DCFC one.

 

[cwerdna]

Go to the EA quarterly report and pull up the average number of charging stations per site. And follow that up with the usage statistics. Hint: EA chargers in middle America are covered with cobwebs. And it ain't a Halloween decoration

Even here in the SF Bay Area, EA utilization looks very low. Every time I've been to or driven by an EA charger, either I'm the only user or there is nobody there. The only exception is when I went to meet w/a Taycan driver at an EA charger. He's a Bolt driver who recently got a Taycan.

Before meeting him, I had done some digging and realized that Taycans (Porsche being owned by VW and EA being owned by VW of America) get 3 years of free EA charging (30 minute DC FC sessions at a time w/1 hour timeout in between) as long as the EA session is started from Porsche's app. That explains why I'd been seeing numerous Taycan checkins on Plugshare at EA sites in the past few months.

Also, they get discounted charging (25 cents a minute in CA) once they pass the 30 minute free charging.

Also, he mentioned that most of the EA chargers in my city are only 150 kW. He had to go to Gilroy to use a 350 kW unit.

 

[miimura]

The only cars that can break 200 kW on EA chargers are the 800V cars, on the single 350 kW/1000V rated stall EA installs at each site.

Ironically, if that stall isn't available or isn't working, they charge slower than other cars, having to use an onboard transformer to get battery voltage from the 500V max of the other stalls. Taycan has a 50 kW transformer standard; a 150 kW version is optional.

I don't know what arrangements any of the other upcoming 800V cars (Lucid, Rivian, etc) have made.

I don't think this is accurate. I am pretty sure the 150kW stalls at EA sites are not limited to 500V, therefore, a Taycan could get 150kW at a 150kW stall, even without the special high power HVDC converter.

 

[Saghost]

I don't think this is accurate. I am pretty sure the 150kW stalls at EA sites are not limited to 500V, therefore, a Taycan could get 150kW at a 150kW stall, even without the special high power HVDC converter.

That would be interesting news if it proves to be correct. AFAIK, all 150 kW rated CCS chargers are 500V units, but I could easily have missed something.

 

[miimura]

That would be interesting news if it proves to be correct. AFAIK, all 150 kW rated CCS chargers are 500V units, but I could easily have missed something.

BTC is one of the EA vendors. This page clearly shows that a 150kW configuration would support that power at either 500V Max or 950V Max. However, you have to use the 350kW capable dispenser with the cooled CCS cable to reach the current required to deliver 150kW at below 500V.

BTCPower

 

[polyphonic54]

There's so much more to the charge situation than that 200 kW+ map. I only have CCS cars, btw. Tesla Superchargers are way more reliable and I sincerely hope that improves.

Locations - Are they in densely populated urban areas or spread along highways? The highway chargers are loss-leaders for the companies, but critical for those of us that road trip. Many critical locations are missing.

Reliability - Electrify America rushed out some poor quality units that are being replaced. What does this mean? Numerous broken stalls, power limited to a fraction of the advertised output, time added to your trip. When they do work - it's great! When they don't, it's a real bummer.

Time from A to B - Factor in the speed the charger is supplying, the charge curve of your vehicle, and the efficiency of your vehicle. How many miles of real range are you adding in X minutes?

 

[Missile Toad]

Lets take a look at a map of the 200+kW chargers-Tesla and EA
Tesla: View attachment 621100

Map is out-of-date, per Supercharge.info data on Tesla. Two more V3 200+ kW sites are in the 4-state TX, OK, AR, LA area, for a total of 4 Tesla 200+ kW sites as of 12/26/2020.

curl -s https://supercharge.info/service/supercharge/allSites | jq -M '.[] | select(.address.country == "USA" and .powerKilowatt > 200 and .status == "OPEN" )' | grep -E "\"(TX|OK|AR|LA)\"|date|\"city" | grep -E -B2 "TX|OK|AR|LA" | awk -F: '{print $2}' | grep -E -o "[a-zA-Z0-9'.-]*" | xargs -n 3

 

[cwerdna]

I don't think this is accurate. I am pretty sure the 150kW stalls at EA sites are not limited to 500V, therefore, a Taycan could get 150kW at a 150kW stall, even without the special high power HVDC converter.

I'm not clear the bolded part is accurate.

If you go to Porsche Taycan 4S - Porsche USA and pick the cheapest Taycan then build, under E-Mobility, there's a $460 option called "On-Board 150 kW/400V DC Charger". If you click on the i, it says "Optional On-Board DC Charger to increase maximum charging capacity when charging at public 400V direct current charging stations. By increasing the charging capacity to 150kW, the charging time is decreased."