Electrify America general discussion

[Xelloss99]

The strangest part about the CCS1 adapter is that Tesla does not recommend using with chargers >300A due to insufficient testing.

Electrify America, the largest public charging network in the US, exclusively uses 350A and 500A chargers.

This is probably because the adapter is rated for 300A. While Model 3 and Y with North America and Korea firmware that support the CCS adapter cap the limit to 300A, the 2021 refresh Model S (and presumably X) do not and can and will exceed this limit, charging in excess of 500A, exceeding the adapter rating.

Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

Welp, get excited for Tesla’s adapter. I’m on a 2000 mile route that is almost all v2 superchargers, and the old 120kw supercharger in this town was also full, but meanwhile I’m just over here doing 200+kw at an empty EA station. Xoxo.

teslamotorsclub.com

Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

Welp, get excited for Tesla’s adapter. I’m on a 2000 mile route that is almost all v2 superchargers, and the old 120kw supercharger in this town was also full, but meanwhile I’m just over here doing 200+kw at an empty EA station. Xoxo.

teslamotorsclub.com

This is in the Setec thread with user @rhuber who hacked a Setec adapter to be passrhrough which basically turned it into a passive Tesla CCS adapter .

Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

DISCLAIMER: DO NOT DO THIS DO NOT DO THIS DO NOT DO THIS After discussions with @JWardell and @Ingineer, we were able to confirm that the tesla ccs adapter is entirely passthrough and just acts as a physical adapter, with no internal circuitry. The reason this works is because the newer cars...

teslamotorsclub.com

Tesla hasn't sold 2021 refresh S/X outside of North America yet so the Korea market doesn't have them and the 3/Y there won't exceed 300A due to firmware cap, but the warning may be a "cover your ass" for anyone using an import with the adapter.

 

[Mockingbird]

This is probably because the adapter is rated for 300A. While Model 3 and Y with North America and Korea firmware that support the CCS adapter cap the limit to 300A, the 2021 refresh Model S (and presumably X) do not and can and will exceed this limit, charging in excess of 500A, exceeding the adapter rating.

Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

Welp, get excited for Tesla’s adapter. I’m on a 2000 mile route that is almost all v2 superchargers, and the old 120kw supercharger in this town was also full, but meanwhile I’m just over here doing 200+kw at an empty EA station. Xoxo.

teslamotorsclub.com

Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

Welp, get excited for Tesla’s adapter. I’m on a 2000 mile route that is almost all v2 superchargers, and the old 120kw supercharger in this town was also full, but meanwhile I’m just over here doing 200+kw at an empty EA station. Xoxo.

teslamotorsclub.com

This is in the Setec thread with user @rhuber who hacked a Setec adapter to be passrhrough which basically turned it into a passive Tesla CCS adapter .

Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

DISCLAIMER: DO NOT DO THIS DO NOT DO THIS DO NOT DO THIS After discussions with @JWardell and @Ingineer, we were able to confirm that the tesla ccs adapter is entirely passthrough and just acts as a physical adapter, with no internal circuitry. The reason this works is because the newer cars...

teslamotorsclub.com

Tesla hasn't sold 2021 refresh S/X outside of North America yet so the Korea market doesn't have them and the 3/Y there won't exceed 300A due to firmware cap, but the warning may be a "cover your ass" for anyone using an import with the adapter.

The problem with that theory is that the manual and the warning are in Korean and most people in North America cannot read Korean.

 

[Daekwan]

FYI.. free charging on EA network for anybody through Jan 3rd 2022.

Verified with my wife's ID.4 on *my* EA account with normal billing.. (her EA account has the ID.4 promo code registered for 3 years of free charging).

 

[miimura]

FYI.. free charging on EA network for anybody through Jan 3rd 2022.

Verified with my wife's ID.4 on *my* EA account with normal billing.. (her EA account has the ID.4 promo code registered for 3 years of free charging).

No need for any account. I simply plugged in, declined a receipt and immediately charged up.

 

[cwerdna]

FYI.. free charging on EA network for anybody through Jan 3rd 2022.

Verified with my wife's ID.4 on *my* EA account with normal billing.. (her EA account has the ID.4 promo code registered for 3 years of free charging).

Thank you. I'd posted about EA juice for the last few days esp. w/the "select" stations thru Jan 2nd (actually Jan 3rd 3 am EST) on some but not all stations...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1475166403065954307

helps confirm your post.

 

[e of pi]

Thank you. I'd posted about EA juice for the last few days esp. w/the "select" stations thru Jan 2nd (actually Jan 3rd 3 am EST) on some but not all stations...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1475166403065954307

helps confirm your post.

I enjoyed it at my charge stops on the way home today. Again, no account needed.

 

[pvdoug]

There is an Electrify America within a four minute walk of my condo in Palos Verdes, Cal. Since I cannot charge at home I either use that charger or a Tesla S/C that is a 4 mile drive.
Although EA only has one device that I can us and takes several hours to charge my Model S, I have found it to be a convenient alternative. I felt the procedures were a little buggy in the beginning, but their staff responds quickly to phone calls and has been very helpful.

 

[e of pi]

Previous round of data (December 11th)

I thought I'd post an update here with data from 1/26/2022. Since the last round of data, plugscore's been pretty steady, slight increase which may be attributed to having payment off for free service during a bunch of holiday check-ins, and unreliable chargers are still bouncing around 1.5-2% of the network. 15 new sites, about 0.33 stations per day over the 46 days between this update and the one on 12/11/2021. Some of that may be the holidays and weather issues.

Left: average Plugscore values, out of 10. Blue is all sites, green excludes sites rated 0, which are often newer ones that just haven't received enough ratings yet. Excluding them helps remove penalties during periods of faster network growth. Red is fraction of unreliable sites, defined as sites rated 1, 2, 3, or 4, and read as a percent (e.g. today's unreliable percentage is 2.14%) Right: breakdown of charger sites by Plugscore.

Left: growth of network, broken down by reliability. Right: Reliability stackup, excluding 0-rated sites.

 

[Mockingbird]

There is an Electrify America within a four minute walk of my condo in Palos Verdes, Cal. Since I cannot charge at home I either use that charger or a Tesla S/C that is a 4 mile drive.
Although EA only has one device that I can us and takes several hours to charge my Model S, I have found it to be a convenient alternative. I felt the procedures were a little buggy in the beginning, but their staff responds quickly to phone calls and has been very helpful.

Let's hope Tesla releases the CCS1 adapter soon so you can use all the chargers.

 

[Mockingbird]

It looks like Electrify America is going to complete I-90, I-80, and I-24 in SD and WY.

I wonder where Electrify America goes next.

...maybe complete I-90 in MT?

 

[mociaf9]

It looks like Electrify America is going to complete I-90, I-80, and I-24 in SD and WY.

If you mean that you're assuming that's their plan based on the recent "coming soon" additions, ok. But that map does not in any way show completion of I-90 across SD or I-80 in WY. With the nearest future location in Worthington MN, that's still almost a 350 mile gap. And on I-80, Evanston to Rawlins, WY is almost 215 miles. These are large gaps in areas that get very cold and often have high winds. I would not consider either of them as "completing" those roads for EV travel. It is very good progress, though. Particularly for WY.

For Tesla drivers and particularly those from Phoenix, there's also a nice addition in Show Low, AZ which is an area that people have been wanting a supercharger for a long time but that Tesla hasn't addressed yet and doesn't even have a "coming soon" pin on.

 

[Mockingbird]

If you mean that you're assuming that's their plan based on the recent "coming soon" additions, ok. But that map does not in any way show completion of I-90 across SD or I-80 in WY. With the nearest future location in Worthington MN, that's still almost a 350 mile gap. And on I-80, Evanston to Rawlins, WY is almost 215 miles. These are large gaps in areas that get very cold and often have high winds. I would not consider either of them as "completing" those roads for EV travel. It is very good progress, though. Particularly for WY.

For Tesla drivers and particularly those from Phoenix, there's also a nice addition in Show Low, AZ which is an area that people have been wanting a supercharger for a long time but that Tesla hasn't addressed yet and doesn't even have a "coming soon" pin on.

One thing I don't quite understand.

According to Electrify America's plan, charging stations (for SD) are planned for Rapid City, Wall, Chamberlain, and Sioux Falls.

Rapid City and Wall are practically right next door, while there are big gaps betwen Wall and Chamberlain and between Chamberlain and Sioux Falls.

 

[Big Earl]

Wall provide easy access to the Badlands that would otherwise be very difficult with just Chamberlin and Rapid City. It also funnels money into the tourist trap.

But yes, they’ll definitely need to split the Chamberlin/Sioux Falls and Wall/Chamberlin gaps at some point.

 

[e of pi]

Previous round of data (Jan 30th)

So! Since this got some action again, how's it look near the end of Q1 2022? Since the last round of data on Jan 30, Plugscore's been remarkably steady, a slight drop in average non-zero Plugscore from 9.013 to 8.978, which is notable as at the time I thought that might be boosted a bit by having payment off for free service during a bunch of holiday check-ins. It's also notable since they need to do some spring maintenance: unreliable chargers have climbed from around 2% of the network to 2.94%. Since the average is still nearly as high despite some problematic chargers, it means there's a little improvement which looks to be in the middle of the pack - 10s are mostly still the same rate, but a few 6s have drifted into 7s. Additions have seen 16 new sites for an average about 0.44 stations per day over the 36 days between this update and the data from 1/28/2022 I used in the 1/30 update, so the pace picked up slightly. Currently averaging 0.42/day year to date. We'll see how the spring and the general supply chain impacts change that.

Left: average Plugscore values, out of 10. Blue is all sites, green excludes sites rated 0, which are often newer ones that just haven't received enough ratings yet. Excluding them helps remove penalties during periods of faster network growth. Red is fraction of unreliable sites, defined as sites rated 1, 2, 3, or 4, and read as a percent (e.g. today's unreliable percentage is 2.94%) Right: breakdown of charger sites by Plugscore.

 

[Earl]

unreliable chargers have climbed from around 2% of the network to 2.94%

Are you talking chargers or charging sites with multiple chargers? I'd say that sites need to be about 99% available in order to be viable for highway travel. However, as long as most of chargers at a site are working, the site is still viable since, while inconvenient, one won't get stuck.
2% of chargers down when there are 4 or more chargers at a site is probably acceptable, especially if the utilization remains below 75%.
This, I believe is Tesla's biggest advantage by having many chargers per site. I've only encountered a Tesla site that was totally down (local power outage) once even though I occasionally find one or 2 chargers at a site to be down. We actually weren't stranded then since even though the Superchargers remained down after power was restored, we managed to restart them.
Tesla also has regular maintenance crews checking and doing preventative maintenance on their sites which helps immensely. Chargepoint and EVConnect have both proudly notified me that they've repaired stations that I've filed complaints about -- many months later. The others put in a service ticket while Tesla sends someone out.

 

[Mockingbird]

Are you talking chargers or charging sites with multiple chargers? I'd say that sites need to be about 99% available in order to be viable for highway travel. However, as long as most of chargers at a site are working, the site is still viable since, while inconvenient, one won't get stuck.
2% of chargers down when there are 4 or more chargers at a site is probably acceptable, especially if the utilization remains below 75%.
This, I believe is Tesla's biggest advantage by having many chargers per site. I've only encountered a Tesla site that was totally down (local power outage) once even though I occasionally find one or 2 chargers at a site to be down. We actually weren't stranded then since even though the Superchargers remained down after power was restored, we managed to restart them.
Tesla also has regular maintenance crews checking and doing preventative maintenance on their sites which helps immensely. Chargepoint and EVConnect have both proudly notified me that they've repaired stations that I've filed complaints about -- many months later. The others put in a service ticket while Tesla sends someone out.

Superchargers simply have fewer components that can fail.

The single most fail prone component at Electrify America charging stations are the credit card readers.

That doesn't mean that drivers are out of luck if the credit card readers fail at Electrify America.

Drivers can still initiate charge using the Elecrify America's app or Plug and Charge.

 

[e of pi]

Are you talking chargers or charging sites with multiple chargers? I'd say that sites need to be about 99% available in order to be viable for highway travel. However, as long as most of chargers at a site are working, the site is still viable since, while inconvenient, one won't get stuck.
2% of chargers down when there are 4 or more chargers at a site is probably acceptable, especially if the utilization remains below 75%.
This, I believe is Tesla's biggest advantage by having many chargers per site. I've only encountered a Tesla site that was totally down (local power outage) once even though I occasionally find one or 2 chargers at a site to be down. We actually weren't stranded then since even though the Superchargers remained down after power was restored, we managed to restart them.
Tesla also has regular maintenance crews checking and doing preventative maintenance on their sites which helps immensely. Chargepoint and EVConnect have both proudly notified me that they've repaired stations that I've filed complaints about -- many months later. The others put in a service ticket while Tesla sends someone out.

I don't have access from Plugshare as to whether a station or any particular stall is up or down, live, only the "Plugscore" they calculate from the rates of good and bad reviews for a site. In general, a site with such a frequency of negative check-ins to get a plugscore under 5 is one I would regard as unreliable and avoid in planning a trip, so I use that as my cutoff for "unreliable" stations.

For example, this is the last few check-ins from one rated 8:

Based on this, I'd expect to be able to use this station and probably wouldn't work too hard to have a backup plan.

This one is a 6.7:

This one I'd feel comfortable planning around, but I'd more strongly aim to have a backup plan.

This is the one from one rated as a 5:

This gets into "I'd avoid it if I could and plan an alternate route in case I have to skip it".

A lot of the reports are based on Chademos, and typically even at a 5 or 6 some stations of a 6-stall station work, so something I'm curious about is what happens when Tesla has CCS and we can get more CCS checkins at these stations.

 

[Earl]

I don't have access from Plugshare as to whether a station or any particular stall is up or down, live, only the "Plugscore"

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you weren't doing the best possible, given the data. I think your analysis of the available data is AWESOME!!
I also agree with your planning philosophy, given the imperfect data available today.

 

[Mockingbird]

I don't have access from Plugshare as to whether a station or any particular stall is up or down, live, only the "Plugscore" they calculate from the rates of good and bad reviews for a site. In general, a site with such a frequency of negative check-ins to get a plugscore under 5 is one I would regard as unreliable and avoid in planning a trip, so I use that as my cutoff for "unreliable" stations.

For example, this is the last few check-ins from one rated 8:
View attachment 777494
Based on this, I'd expect to be able to use this station and probably wouldn't work too hard to have a backup plan.

This one is a 6.7:
View attachment 777495
This one I'd feel comfortable planning around, but I'd more strongly aim to have a backup plan.

This is the one from one rated as a 5:
View attachment 777493
This gets into "I'd avoid it if I could and plan an alternate route in case I have to skip it".

A lot of the reports are based on Chademos, and typically even at a 5 or 6 some stations of a 6-stall station work, so something I'm curious about is what happens when Tesla has CCS and we can get more CCS checkins at these stations.

While PlugShare scores are certainly helpful, they don't give the whole story.

For example:

Check-in from CCS vehicles doesn't mean much for CHAdeMO vehicle and vice verse.

Early CCS vehicles (Chevy Bolt, BMW i3) have trouble with heavy liquid cooled cables the Electrify America uses.

 

[e of pi]

While PlugShare scores are certainly helpful, they don't give the whole story.

For example:

Check-in from CCS vehicles doesn't mean much for CHAdeMO vehicle and vice verse.

Early CCS vehicles (Chevy Bolt, BMW i3) have trouble with heavy liquid cooled cables the Electrify America uses.

True. But I have the data I have, and I don't have the data I don't have. I could go through and sort out all the check-ins that are from Leaf drivers and try to recreate the data, but it's already about 15-20 minutes every time I do a pull of the data for Electrify America, Electrify Canada, EVGo (>70 kW), and everyone else (>70kW). I'm sure electrify america has some kind of "fleet reliability" engineers who have even better dashboards pulling straight from the pedestals, but I don't have anything I can't get from counting with Plugshare, and they requires you to pay for API access to get any more detailed counts than just sorting by Plugscore and power level. I've gotten lucky hitting stations rated 5 in the past, but 4s and below tend to be bad to include in routes, hence why I put my cutoff there.