Electrify America general discussion

[Mockingbird]

Because not all Tesla drivers will have their own adapters. In fact, and I'm not saying this is how it will play out, but suppose that EA did provide a built-in adapter solution. Now there is even less reason for Tesla owners to buy their own adapters, so they are somewhat locked into EA stations that "support" the Tesla connector. If instead Tesla owners do go out and buy their own adapters, they can use other networks just as easily as EA. So in a sense, they would be locking up the Tesla market (unless other networks decide to also offer built-in Tesla support).

If Tesla drivers bring their own adapters and Tesla drivers can't get their adapters to work, it's a problem for Tesla's support to deal with.

On the other hand, if Electrify America provides the adapter on-site and Tesla drivers can't get the adapter to work, it's now something that Electrify America's support has to deal with (since Electrify America is the one providing the on-site adapter).

 

[Jeff N]

A somewhat complicated solution to that might be to integrate a Chademo adapter along side it. Once the charger tries PLC and gets an error it could switch to 50kW Tesla CAN over a secondary Chademo lead and charge that way.

There’s certainly some challenges with what I’m suggesting (either way) but long term with more of the fleet having PLC capabilities, it may make sense.

Interesting. Based on what we’ve seen with EA and CHAdeMO and EVgo and TPC it seems like EVgo might be more likely to try something like you suggest first.

There are lots of competing potential business motivations here. It will be interesting to see if anything along these lines happens.

 

[echen]

That's just california tho... Up here, the SC I go to, are all cheaper than EA. Some are 29 cents all hours, some 24 cents all hours, some are 37 cents peak and 18 cents off peak, etc. But otherwise I agree... I'm driving down to California in a few weeks, and was going to experiment with hitting a few CCS chargers during peak hours instead of paying the 48 cents in NorCal, and 58 cents in SoCal. The EA locations look to only have 4 stalls, so not sure how crowded they'll be.

I live in WA and lots of the super rural ones are like $0.48/kW now after recent price increases. Definitely planning on using my Tesla CCS1 adapter for most of my fast charging on road trips from here on out. I'm hoping EA doesn't raise their prices anytime soon.

 

[zecar]

The gas pump brings hundreds every day to the convenience store.

Which is why Superchargers at grocery stores is Tesla's preference. No one wants to spend 20-30 minutes in a convenience store. Long term replacing gas pumps with fast chargers is not a viable business model unless charging times improve.

Meaningful public level 2 is only at motels and work. It's unfortunate that some states and Rivian believe that scattering level 2 around to places people use during the day is a good way to spend charger money.

 

[avs007]

I live in WA and lots of the super rural ones are like $0.48/kW now after recent price increases. Definitely planning on using my Tesla CCS1 adapter for most of my fast charging on road trips from here on out. I'm hoping EA doesn't raise their prices anytime soon.

Yeah I just noticed this a few days ago when I drove thru Seattle. They raised the prices of all the superchargers compared to when I was just here a week or two ago. I'm planning on trying the Pass+ on EA.

 

[cwerdna]

I live in WA and lots of the super rural ones are like $0.48/kW now after recent price increases. Definitely planning on using my Tesla CCS1 adapter for most of my fast charging on road trips from here on out. I'm hoping EA doesn't raise their prices anytime soon.

You mean 48 cents per kWh?

 

[RTPEV]

Which is why Superchargers at grocery stores is Tesla's preference. No one wants to spend 20-30 minutes in a convenience store. Long term replacing gas pumps with fast chargers is not a viable business model unless charging times improve.

You'll need both.

Grocery stores are just about perfect to serve areas where the users are mostly locals who lack the ability to charge at home or work.

But on a road trip I don't want to have to navigate to a grocery store that might be not as conveniently located next to the highway and may not even be open if I am there at an off hour. And while I can probably find a snack at a Walmart or Target, I'm probably not going to find the same variety I would as at a good convenience store.

Plus, the "convenience" store concept is shifting. Outlets like Sheetz and Wawa feature in-store "restaurants" and seating areas. They are generally easy in and out, and many now partner with well known chains that offer popular food and beverage options. I have no problem being at one of those for 20-30 minutes. By the time I've used the restroom, gotten my food or a coffee and sat down for a few minutes to eat & check my phone, the car is usually ready.

 

[Mockingbird]

Evanston, WY location is open

 

[STS-134]

EA app gives authentication error and crashes. Skipping authentication, it shows no charging sites.

EA apparently relies on ONE AWS node to run their entire backend:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1468356819517165575

What a joke.

 

[lynyrdM]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. When communication errors happen (any kind) these should fail over to an open state. It would be a great way to inspire driver confidence when things go wrong.

It doesn’t even have to be full speed, just something so drivers don’t have to worry about getting stranded because an internet link or a payment system goes down.

 

[TomServo]

I just created an EA account in anticipation of receiving the CCS adapter, and I chose the basic plan but then it asked me to pre-load some money. This is what I found on the EA FAQ page:
"When you sign up for Electrify America Pass or Pass+ in the mobile app, follow the prompts to add your credit card to your account. Then select an amount to automatically load money to your Electrify America balance.

This amount will be added to your account the first time you charge your vehicle at an Electrify America charging station after signing up. Every time your balance falls to or below $5, your account will reload with the amount you selected.

The cost for charging, idling, and any applicable taxes will be deducted from your balance at the end of your charging session."

I found it odd that even though I gave them my CC they still want to maintain a "surplus of funds" in my account I guess it's like an ESCROW account. I wonder how much money EA has collected in advance of any electricity dispensed?

Seems to me to be an ODD business model. What am I missing?

 

[theothertom]

I found it odd that even though I gave them my CC they still want to maintain a "surplus of funds" in my account

Yep. I found that out the hard way a few years ago when I was trying to charge my Chevy Bolt. Even though I had a card attached to my account, the charger wouldn't activate. I had to call the help line and they explained that I had to actually add funds to my account, which I thought was odd. But after I did that, everything worked.

 

[Mockingbird]

EA app gives authentication error and crashes. Skipping authentication, it shows no charging sites.

EA apparently relies on ONE AWS node to run their entire backend:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1468356819517165575

What a joke.

You are making a disingenuous argument.

There was a global outage of Amazon Web Service (AWS) which affected a whole lot more than just Electrify America.

 

[srs5694]

I found it odd that even though I gave them my CC they still want to maintain a "surplus of funds" in my account I guess it's like an ESCROW account. I wonder how much money EA has collected in advance of any electricity dispensed?

Seems to me to be an ODD business model. What am I missing?

It's a fairly common practice. I've got accounts on several charging networks (EA, ChargePoint, Blink, EVgo, etc.), and more than one is like that. (I don't recall which ones, specifically.) The amounts are usually small ($10 or thereabouts), so it's not a big deal, IMHO, but I'm sure it adds up for the providers -- maybe enough to help them fund the deployment of stations, although that's speculative at best.

FWIW, the EZ-Pass automated toll booth billing system that's used in the northeast works the same way. They constantly hold a few bucks of mine and bill me when my balance drops below some amount.

 

[Rocky_H]

Seems to me to be an ODD business model. What am I missing?

It's reducing credit card transaction fees by reducing the number of transactions.

This makes a whole lot of sense for repeated small purchases. If they are going to charge a couple of dollars at a time, those transaction fees become an annoyingly large bite out of the profit margin. But if they can have three or four sessions using up the amount in your account before running ONE more credit card transaction to refill it, it saves everyone money. They don't have to pay as many fees and therefore have better margins and don't have to roll as much of that into the prices of the kWh or session startup fees.

 

[RTPEV]

Pretty sure I've had $20 sitting in my ChargePoint account for years! Almost all of the ChargePoint stations I use are free, but they still are holding on to that initial deposit!

 

[miimura]

Pretty sure I've had $20 sitting in my ChargePoint account for years! Almost all of the ChargePoint stations I use are free, but they still are holding on to that initial deposit!

When I signed up for ChargePoint around 2013, that $20 deposit was the requirement in order to get them to send you a free RFID card. It took me 4 or 5 years to go through that initial amount. Today, I wouldn't bother with the physical RFID card because their Apple Wallet integration works so well.

 

[TomServo]

It's reducing credit card transaction fees by reducing the number of transactions.

This makes a whole lot of sense for repeated small purchases. If they are going to charge a couple of dollars at a time, those transaction fees become an annoyingly large bite out of the profit margin. But if they can have three or four sessions using up the amount in your account before running ONE more credit card transaction to refill it, it saves everyone money. They don't have to pay as many fees and therefore have better margins and don't have to roll as much of that into the prices of the kWh or session startup fees.

Thanks for that info, I guess at age 70 I don’t use my CCs like that. I just don’t want to get stranded on a road trip because of a misunderstanding. So does it matter if I prime the account with the minimum amount? Or is there some reason to fund a larger amount?

 

[theothertom]

So does it matter if I prime the account with the minimum amount?

I don't remember how much I put on my account but it wasn't much. Maybe $10.

 

[Rocky_H]

Thanks for that info, I guess at age 70 I don’t use my CCs like that. I just don’t want to get stranded on a road trip because of a misunderstanding. So does it matter if I prime the account with the minimum amount? Or is there some reason to fund a larger amount?

No, there's no reason to fund bigger than the $10 or whatever minimum starter amount is. The auto detection and refill seems to work fine. It's just a reasonable thing to not have to have every two or three dollar charge getting hit with the credit card minimum fees, so it's effectively batching them up together some.