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Electrify Canada

Vawlkus

Active Member
Feb 28, 2017
1,785
1,013
Halifax
Adaptor from CCS to Tesla port a thing? Someone must be working on that - Teslas are the majority of EVs on NA roads, would be stupid to not lure them in as customers to a for profit charging outfit.
I’m not so sure.
I know the EUR Model 3s have CCS plugs built in. I wonder if there’s an issue adapting CCS to Tesla.
 
Adaptor from CCS to Tesla port a thing? Someone must be working on that - Teslas are the majority of EVs on NA roads, would be stupid to not lure them in as customers to a for profit charging outfit.

Tesla has stated that they'll release an adapter in EU for the Model S / X to take advantage of CCS considering all M3s are CCS-only. CCS won the war, at least in the EU.

I've reached out several times for NA asking about adapter availability but they refuse to comment.... I'm pretty certain they'll have a CCS adapter for NA, it's just a matter of time... My hope would be sometime this year if they'll be releasing an EU version slightly before a NA version.
 

Vawlkus

Active Member
Feb 28, 2017
1,785
1,013
Halifax
Tesla has stated that they'll release an adapter in EU for the Model S / X to take advantage of CCS considering all M3s are CCS-only. CCS won the war, at least in the EU.

I've reached out several times for NA asking about adapter availability but they refuse to comment.... I'm pretty certain they'll have a CCS adapter for NA, it's just a matter of time... My hope would be sometime this year if they'll be releasing an EU version slightly before a NA version.
You don’t suppose they’re holding the M3 Chademo to release alongside the CCS adapter?
 

JCYVR

Member
Jul 1, 2018
30
40
Vancouver
You don’t suppose they’re holding the M3 Chademo to release alongside the CCS adapter?

Due to the way the European CCS Plug is designed, it was easy to make an adapter since the Mennekes Typ2 port is layed out. The North American edition of CCS is different and the fear is that no adapter is possible.

I guarantee that all future Tesla vehicles in North America will use CCS, maybe not a year from now, but in 5 years time I imagine they will change over. Tesla needed to build their own network to create a compelling event for people to buy EVs in mass numbers, but very soon it will be advantageous to charge anywhere on any network than just a Tesla Supercharger. Once an inflection point is met, competition eating into Tesla's marketshare, or CCS Stations having better reach, that's the point Tesla will flip their charge options.

The only way this doesnt happen is if Tesla opens up their charge adapter and comes to an agreement with major networks such as Chargepoint to include a Tesla cable along with CCS; many stations today are already doing DCFC with CCS and CHAdeMO on same charging unit, so if Tesla could work with the Charger manufacturers and the Networks, they could avoid needing to modify their charge port standard.

It's too bad that Tesla didn't push to make their connector type a standard; it would have meant giving up some control and it would have also meant that non-tesla vehicles try to use Superchargers, but it would have been a better solution for North America and despite Elon/Tesla saying they don't want the Supercharger Network to become a walled garden, they have essentially done that -- the only way they resolve this at this point is to add support for CCS and build in payment tech for their chargers so other cars can use them. That still doesn't help the rest of us however.

I love my Model 3, but right now I'm telling everyone I know who is thinking about one to hold off until Tesla reveals their intentions for CCS in North America -- there's a real likelihood that we're stuck on Tesla charge ports or J1772 only and if that's the case it's really too bad, ultimately it means maybe I should have just waited for Tesla or their competitors to become more mature.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
11,198
9,073
Maine
Due to the way the European CCS Plug is designed, it was easy to make an adapter since the Mennekes Typ2 port is layed out. The North American edition of CCS is different and the fear is that no adapter is possible.

I guarantee that all future Tesla vehicles in North America will use CCS, maybe not a year from now, but in 5 years time I imagine they will change over. Tesla needed to build their own network to create a compelling event for people to buy EVs in mass numbers, but very soon it will be advantageous to charge anywhere on any network than just a Tesla Supercharger. Once an inflection point is met, competition eating into Tesla's marketshare, or CCS Stations having better reach, that's the point Tesla will flip their charge options.

As long as Tesla sells EVs, they will ultimately end up with large coverage.

1) Tesla builds their own infrastructure. They just need to find agreeable hosts.
2) Because of home refueling Tesla doesn't need the ultra-high density that gas stations require.

My local gas station has 2 x 2 stalls with 1 x 2 having diesel available and all 2 x 2 having both regular and premium gasoline.
That requires separate tanks for 3 different fuels and two nozzles at 2 stalls.
That is considered normal and is nobody thinks it's a problem.

But chargers, which all use the same energy source, apparently have to be the same, because otherwise it won't work.
 

JCYVR

Member
Jul 1, 2018
30
40
Vancouver
As long as Tesla sells EVs, they will ultimately end up with large coverage.

1) Tesla builds their own infrastructure. They just need to find agreeable hosts.
2) Because of home refueling Tesla doesn't need the ultra-high density that gas stations require.

My local gas station has 2 x 2 stalls with 1 x 2 having diesel available and all 2 x 2 having both regular and premium gasoline.
That requires separate tanks for 3 different fuels and two nozzles at 2 stalls.
That is considered normal and is nobody thinks it's a problem.

But chargers, which all use the same energy source, apparently have to be the same, because otherwise it won't work.

I'm not sure what You're getting at with the gas station analogy and 'same energy source'

What I am saying is that Tesla WILL move to CCS in North America eventually and likely in 5 years and this is because if they don't they will be at a competitive disadvantage for charging options.

Supercharger locations cost a lot, and since CCS is an open standard there's will be many more CCS Chargers than superchargers, this is because almost every other car manufacturer is using or planning to use CCS.

The reason CCS will be a competitive advantage for other manufacturers is they won't need to individually fund a network the size of Tesla, they just need to fund a CCS chargers where there aren't any to grow the network, additionally, when municipal governments want to encourage EV adoption, they will build CCS chargers.

You can already see in BC there is some better rural access via CCS as a result of BC Hydro partnering with local government. I can't get from Vancouver to Port McNeil and back with my Model 3, it's a trip I can't make, but if I bad CHAdeMO or CCS it's not a problem.

Putting it another way, when was the last time you looked at a cell phone coverage map? Probably never if you're on a major telecom as they have roaming agreements so there's always coverage where you need it. But maybe you do care because you're on Wind Mobile, in this case your coverage area is tiny compared to ebrevery else and you need to be very careful about using your cellphone outside the service area otherwise you can incur massive roaming charges.

Right now Tesla is the major Telecom, but in the future Tesla, if they only use their proprietary charge port will be like Wind.

Tesla is already feeling the pressure trying to be profitable, they will change their strategy. It just remains to be seen if current Tesla owners can make use of CCS when they do change.
 

richyrich

Member
Apr 13, 2018
775
696
Ottawa
Their site is bilingual.

Locate a charger | Electrify Canada

The planned locations remind me of the Canadian Supercharger network in mid-2016. However, there's a big difference for travel to and from Quebec : nothing on the Electrify America side linking NYC and Boston to Montreal.

Wow, what a pathetic excuse for a website and level of information. I can only assume they are doing practically nothing to really build these chargers and this is just more greenwash from VAG who apparently should have had tens of electric vehicles on the road by now going by their statements from the last decade - you have to assume they aren't really trying.

In practical terms, surely anyone considering an Audi e-Tron would want to see a bit more detail than this seeing as the cars are supposed to be hitting the streets "soon"?
 
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JCYVR

Member
Jul 1, 2018
30
40
Vancouver
Tesla May add CCS support as they are doing in the EU, but I SERIOUSLY doubt they will pivot wholesale.

They have at least a five year lead on any competing charger network worldwide. They don’t need anyone to join them, but the door is open if any do.

The door isn't open though; Tesla's claim of "opening up patents" has been a media story. What Tesla would need to have done was work with standards organizations such as SAE and have the Tesla connector turned into a standard and given that the entire auto industry is adopting CCS, it's game over for the Tesla Charge Port except on Tesla owned Super Chargers, or Private Destination Chargers.

The entire internet is built on modern open technologies and that's what competing auto manufacturers want -- they want standards, they want to know in 5 years time there is going to be evolution of technology that they can all take advantage of. Without an open standard there would be nothing stopping Tesla from not sharing additional information about their charge ports and thus locking the competitors out of improving the technology.

Before you say that they could just fork it, it's dangerous for a consumer to put the wrong cable into their car no matter the safety precautions built-in.

There's no advantage for Tesla to stay on their port with the exception of keeping competing cars from attempting to use their superchargers. The original advantage for the port was it was sleek and outperformed bulky connector options like CHAdeMO, but the only thing this port and connector type has now is that it's more sleek than CCS, but with CCS having specifications supporting 350 KW fast charging and payment integration, does a sleek port matter?

BMW, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar Land Rover, Kia, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, Volkswagen, and Volvo.

All of those above companies are working on EVs in some way, and they are all going to be using CCS. How are they going to sell their cars against Tesla when Tesla owns the market? Wider reach.

You're in Halifax, here's the CCS Reach today
upload_2019-1-31_13-42-14.png



Here is the Superchargers

upload_2019-1-31_13-42-38.png
 

Vawlkus

Active Member
Feb 28, 2017
1,785
1,013
Halifax
The door isn't open though; Tesla's claim of "opening up patents" has been a media story. What Tesla would need to have done was work with standards organizations such as SAE and have the Tesla connector turned into a standard and given that the entire auto industry is adopting CCS, it's game over for the Tesla Charge Port except on Tesla owned Super Chargers, or Private Destination Chargers.

The entire internet is built on modern open technologies and that's what competing auto manufacturers want -- they want standards, they want to know in 5 years time there is going to be evolution of technology that they can all take advantage of. Without an open standard there would be nothing stopping Tesla from not sharing additional information about their charge ports and thus locking the competitors out of improving the technology.

Before you say that they could just fork it, it's dangerous for a consumer to put the wrong cable into their car no matter the safety precautions built-in.

There's no advantage for Tesla to stay on their port with the exception of keeping competing cars from attempting to use their superchargers. The original advantage for the port was it was sleek and outperformed bulky connector options like CHAdeMO, but the only thing this port and connector type has now is that it's more sleek than CCS, but with CCS having specifications supporting 350 KW fast charging and payment integration, does a sleek port matter?

BMW, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar Land Rover, Kia, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, Volkswagen, and Volvo.

All of those above companies are working on EVs in some way, and they are all going to be using CCS. How are they going to sell their cars against Tesla when Tesla owns the market? Wider reach.

You're in Halifax, here's the CCS Reach today
View attachment 373501


Here is the Superchargers

View attachment 373502
Here’s the problem I have with that: there are no cars using CCS yet in North America (that I’m aware of anyway). Other car companies can ‘say’ they’re going to use CCS until they’re blue in the face, it’s meaningless until they actually do it. Those charging stations are all being used via their Chademo plugs.

The other problem I have is 350 kW charging. Currently, there are no cars that can charge at that rate. Even Tesla’s are limited to 100-150. It’s been pointed out by battery researchers that the faster you charge, the quicker you degrade your battery. Until there’s a new battery design that can take a higher charge rate, having a higher charge rate does zero good.
 

RiverBrick

Active Member
Mar 23, 2014
2,586
2,006
Mount Washington Valley
there are no cars using CCS yet in North America (that I’m aware of anyway).

There are numerous models of CCS cars on sale in North America, but mostly in low-volume.

Here are some examples:

Bolt
I-Pace
Ionic
Focus EV
i3
eGolf

The combined 2018 new car sales of those models in Quebec was probably less than for the CHAdeMO-compatible LEAF, though. Mostly due to availability.
 
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MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
17,229
41,815
Oregon
Due to the way the European CCS Plug is designed, it was easy to make an adapter since the Mennekes Typ2 port is layed out. The North American edition of CCS is different and the fear is that no adapter is possible.

That isn't it at all. The NA CCS is just like the European CCS. They added two DC pins under the standard connector for the region. In the EU that was a Type 2 connector, in NA it is a J1772 connector.

The problem is that in NA Tesla decided to use a proprietary connector while in the EU they decided to extend the standard connector. (And part of the reason for that was that Tesla was so early in the NA market that there was nothing else out there that was even close to good enough.)

In either case the adapter is likely going to be big and require electronics like the CHAdeMO one, so they should be able to make on for both the EU and NA markets with little extra work. (Assuming the standards allow it.)
 
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Sisko - DS9

Member
May 1, 2016
93
114
Ontario
The door isn't open though; Tesla's claim of "opening up patents" has been a media story. What Tesla would need to have done was work with standards organizations such as SAE and have the Tesla connector turned into a standard and given that the entire auto industry is adopting CCS, it's game over for the Tesla Charge Port except on Tesla owned Super Chargers, or Private Destination Chargers.

The entire internet is built on modern open technologies and that's what competing auto manufacturers want -- they want standards, they want to know in 5 years time there is going to be evolution of technology that they can all take advantage of. Without an open standard there would be nothing stopping Tesla from not sharing additional information about their charge ports and thus locking the competitors out of improving the technology.

Before you say that they could just fork it, it's dangerous for a consumer to put the wrong cable into their car no matter the safety precautions built-in.

There's no advantage for Tesla to stay on their port with the exception of keeping competing cars from attempting to use their superchargers. The original advantage for the port was it was sleek and outperformed bulky connector options like CHAdeMO, but the only thing this port and connector type has now is that it's more sleek than CCS, but with CCS having specifications supporting 350 KW fast charging and payment integration, does a sleek port matter?

BMW, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar Land Rover, Kia, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, Volkswagen, and Volvo.

All of those above companies are working on EVs in some way, and they are all going to be using CCS. How are they going to sell their cars against Tesla when Tesla owns the market? Wider reach.

You're in Halifax, here's the CCS Reach today
View attachment 373501


Here is the Superchargers

View attachment 373502


That is great coverage by CCS - most of which are from FLO; but the problem is that they only have one plug at each station. Whereas Tesla has on average 8 plugs per station. It would be nice if they had at least 3 CCS plugs per station. For more people to move to EV's they have to have "hope" that when they need to charge, they have a chance of getting one without having to wait for too long, if at all. When the Kona EV is available in Canada, these will sell very well. So will Niro EV and some of the others like I-Pace, Audi E-Tron, Mercedes EQC; not to mention VW's EV line up. I know all these being in the market together are propably 2/3 years out; but it is coming.

Tesla has these issues at some locations where there is a lot of traffic in Teslas... but even Tesla is trying to add addition stalls in high use areas. Hopefull FLO does the same.
 

adaptabl

Banned
Mar 13, 2018
776
702
Canada
That is great coverage by CCS - most of which are from FLO; but the problem is that they only have one plug at each station. Whereas Tesla has on average 8 plugs per station. It would be nice if they had at least 3 CCS plugs per station. For more people to move to EV's they have to have "hope" that when they need to charge, they have a chance of getting one without having to wait for too long, if at all. When the Kona EV is available in Canada, these will sell very well. So will Niro EV and some of the others like I-Pace, Audi E-Tron, Mercedes EQC; not to mention VW's EV line up. I know all these being in the market together are propably 2/3 years out; but it is coming.

Tesla has these issues at some locations where there is a lot of traffic in Teslas... but even Tesla is trying to add addition stalls in high use areas. Hopefull FLO does the same.

Make them all CSS and keep a few Tesla connectors for backward compatibility.
 
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