Using that line in the sand, good thing this thread is not about a tweet from someone who publicly accused someone of being a pedophile with zero evidence, or would claim someone wasn't a chief engineer when they were, or claims COVID is a hoax or that the whole "mainstream media" is biased against them. Because that would be kind of awkward.
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"Elon’s tweet does not match engineering reality per CJ." - CJ Moore, Tesla's Director of Autopilot Software
- Thread starter Bladerskb
- Start date
Ben W
Chess Grandmaster (Supervised)
I used "FSD 8" loosely to describe the version of FSD currently accessible to all drivers who have purchased FSD, though maybe it technically refers to the current pre-9 limited beta, so the general fleet is still on "FSD 7"? (My car is currently on 2021.4.15.6.) And since the car has highway features (e.g. "Navigate on Autopilot") that are only accessible with FSD purchase and FSD hardware, those are by definition "highway FSD" features. There is not really a bright line between city/highway/freeway driving, so I'd assume that the FSD advances Elon touts, and techniques used to achieve them, must apply to highway as well. IOW I doubt there is a geofence where the current beta "shuts off FSD 9.0" and falls back to an older version when it gets on the highway. I could be wrong of course; I'm sure someone will correct me.
On the safety figures, It's important not to directly equate crashes with fatalities. The rate of the latter is always considerably lower. 100M miles between fatalities does not imply 100M miles between collisions, which does not imply 100M miles between disengagement requests (where the car goes into safe mode but keeps steering and braking), which does not imply 100M miles between near-misses where an alert human would take over but the car wouldn't have actually crashed. So it's plausible that say 2M miles between collisions and 100M miles between fatalities are roughly equivalent. (Pedantically speaking, in any case, moving from 20k miles to 100M miles is less than four orders of magnitude, not five.)
Reaching good-human-driver safety equivalency will be a huge benchmark, although (I agree with you) it still won't be enough to gain governmental approval. And I think it is still several years off for highway driving, and at least a decade for city driving.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I think you are confusing "FSD" with "FSD Beta". There is no such thing as "FSD 7". There is "FSD Beta V8". V7, V8, V9 refers to different versions of FSD Beta which is in Early Access testing. The general fleet does not have FSD Bet yet. We have "regular" FSD, ie the different FSD features like Auto Park, Smart Summon, and NOA that have been released to the public. What we have is different than FSD Beta.
M109Rider
Active Member
You Tesla haters are so hypocritical.
I get that you’re hurt, and angry, and want to hurt Tesla back. I also realize folks like you are an inevitable blight of these forums. Still can only wish it wasn’t so.
Maybe a hug would help, who knows.
Except my car doesn't have FSD, or "FSD hardware" and yet it has NoA.
Tesla sold a lot of variations of AP over the years, and there really are no absolutes. And unless you are one of the 71 non-employee testers, you don't have any kind of FSD beta code (V7, V8, V9, etc) either.
You can assume that, but the data shows that no FSD beta up through v8 changed any highway code at all from what every Tesla owner already has.
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I know! Pointing out that some Elon fanboy holds the "haters" to one standard but Elon to a completely different one. How inconsistent and inconvenient of me. But you're right, I'm the hypocritical one. Not quite sure why, but I'm sure you have some good logic that you just didn't have time to point out.You Tesla haters are so hypocritical.
And while I realize that it doesn't fit you model and thus can't be true, I don't hate Tesla. I find them great cars. I own two of them. What I am is an immense Tesla skeptic in the area of autonomy, which owning 4 AP2 cars over the years will do to you. Meanwhile I have about 15 referrals in my account because I tell everyone they are great cars as long as they absolutely, positively are not buying them for any kind of autonomy features.
I bet you do wish that there was nobody to poke at all at your idea that Tesla can do no wrong, is on a "mission" to save the earth, and will have us all driving in autonomous cars in
The ignore button is right up there, click it enough times on enough people and the sound in your echo chamber will be perfect.
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Ben W
Chess Grandmaster (Supervised)
Acknowledged. I think it was coincidence that my 2017 Model 3 got its Hardware 3.0 upgrade at exactly the same time NoA was introduced, so I incorrectly assumed they were connected. Also since current Tesla packages bundle them together (the $10k FSD package states that it adds both Hardware 3.0 and NoA, though my understanding is that all new cars do have HW3), I assumed HW2.5 didn't support it, but I see that some legacy configurations do.
And yes, understood that what the general fleet has is not the full "FSD Beta", though it does have some new visualization capabilities and added functionality like auto-slowing for traffic controls. (And presumably running some sort of FSD Beta in shadow mode so Tesla can gather info, if the user opts-in to data sharing.) Looking forward to "The Button", though not holding my breath!
Ben W
Chess Grandmaster (Supervised)
Acknowledged, I wasn't aware there were such configurations out there (with HW2.5 + NoA). Thanks.
Is there footage of what happens when a FSD Beta car is driven onto a highway/freeway? Does the FSD Beta visualization stop working and revert to non-beta mode? Or does it keep the beta visualization active, but the driving functionality reverts to non-beta mode? (E.g. requiring confirmations for lane changes?) I'd be curious.
MrBadger
Badger out
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Tam
Well-Known Member
There are those who focus on FSD Beta as an improvement on the Highway FSD module as well. Officially, Tesla letters to CA DMV last year stating its name as "City Streets":
"...For context, and as we’ve previously discussed, City Streets continues to firmly root the vehicle in SAE Level 2 capability and does not make it autonomous under the DMV’s definition. City Streets’ capabilities with respect to the object and event detection and response (OEDR) sub-task are limited, as there are circumstances and events to which the system is not capable of recognizing or responding..."
The phrase "City Streets" appears about 70 times in the document.
The phrase "Freeway" does appear about 14 times but when they talk about conventional Autopilot/FSD, including those from the current owner's manual and not about "City Streets".
M109Rider
Active Member
Why do Tesla haters assume Tesla fans feel Tesla can do no wrong. It’s the same old, and only redundant argument you haters spit out over and over again.
You (and the other disgruntled haters here), can say in so many words as many times as you like, “I love Tesla, I don’t know what you mean”.
But the non stop posts at every opportunity to point out everything wrong,… Well, those actions say otherwise. ..
Actually, you fanbois with your altered electric Jesus reality are a blight on these & many other forumsYou Tesla haters are so hypocritical.
I get that you’re hurt, and angry, and want to hurt Tesla back. I also realize folks like you are an inevitable blight of these forums. Still can only wish it wasn’t so.
Maybe a hug would help, who knows.
Musk (an employee & hence representative of Tesla) has failed time again with his stated FSD delivery dates, yet you revisionist apologists remind me of a meme about fans of a certain well know past president:
“He didn’t say that. And if he did, he didn’t mean it. And if he did, you didn’t understand it. And if you did, it’s not a big deal. And if it is, others have said worse”
Ugh.
It can actually very much be a sign of caring. I don't post on forums for, say, Ford because I don't give a rat's ass about the brand or their products. I gripe about Tesla's shortcomings because I give a damn and would like to remain a customer if they're willing to do better at the things they currently suck at.
M109Rider
Active Member
Yup. Keep on hating.
You haters that attach yourselves to one or two things you choose to hate, and then become incapable to any further balanced feedback. You’ll say you’re balanced, and try to convince uourseld you’re balanced, but you’ll jump on the hater wagon, with the othe l0r small group of unbalanced haters, and create a pity party of loyalty.
I often wonder if a hug, would just turn things around for you haters. ..
M109Rider
Active Member
Again, you say you care….
Your threads and replies over the long haul, that I’ve read, really say otherwise. You’re convincing yourself that you are this caring Tesla guy, not a hater. But your threads say totally the opposite.
Why is it, you haters, can’t just say “May name is _____, and I’m a Tesla Hater”.
First steps.
Denial, is a terrible way to live.
His title was Chief Vehicle Engineer, and not Chief Engineer, so the tweet was accurate, strictly speaking.
Again, you say you care….
Your threads and replies over the long haul, that I’ve read, really say otherwise. You’re convincing yourself that you are this caring Tesla guy, not a hater. But your threads say totally the opposite.
Why is it, you haters, can’t just say “May name is _____, and I’m a Tesla Hater”.
First steps.
Denial, is a terrible way to live.
gee, I wonder where the smug cultist reputation of tesla customers comes from.
It's certainly possible.
It's funny though, since I'm pretty consistent in saying that I think Tesla makes the best daily drivers on the planet, at any cost. I just think they've handled FSD all wrong and that Elon is a snake oil salesman. I also don't think the seats are particularly good, and that the lack of CarPlay and Android Auto is very frustrating.
But hey, I guess since I'm not effusively praising the aspects of the car I think are great (almost everything else!), I'm a hater!
For me personally, there's little to be gained from compliments or praise for my work, because I already KNOW the things that are good. What I need to know about are the things people *don't* like, so I can address those in future updates. Since Tesla doesn't have any methods of giving feedback that will actually go anywhere, all I can really do is make noise places like here and see if other like-minded customers have the same frustrations I do, and see if maybe as a group we can get Tesla to try and improve what they're doing. Maybe I'm still too much of an optimist, though.