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Elon and influence on crypto currency markets
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I was having an argument about this with someone (who is heavily invested in cryptos, and consumes almost exclusively talking heads YT stuff that confirms his existing beliefs).Wasn't the real point here that that he claims bitcoin mining uses too much coal and other fossil fuels? Obviously he should stop selling cars in China and concentrate on inventing the battery powered computer instead
Other power saving ideas include abandoning SatNav and inventing the resuable paper navigation guide, dumping mobile phone and providing public access call devices strategically placed in tiny coin operated booths and note sending boxes. We could also get rid off road freight and dig a network of waterways with barges for distance haulage. And for people who insist on driving in a mire of noise I have an idea for clockwork device that turns a grooved cyclinder to vibrate a needle amplified through a large horn....
My opinion is that what Elon said about Bitcoin’s energy use is largely irrelevant. Equally irrelevant to me is why he said it. It seems logical that it’s more of a Tesla statement than an Elon one, perhaps to placate investors concerned about green credentials.
BUT what is important, I think, is that he can say something that has such an effect on crypto markets. That one person has the power to move the Bitcoin market (and others - since they all seem to be pegged to BTC in the main with these dramatic events) by ~15% in a matter of minutes should be cause for concern, and reflection on it’s viability, etc.
People really into cryptos are perfectly happy when Elon and co express positive sentiment and “number go up”. When these same people say anything negative - suddenly they’re evil and should be ignored.
If you’re playing with cryptos you have to accept that the value is heavily driven by sentiment. On some cryptos (e.g. Dogecoin) it’s completely sentiment driven. If someone saying something - even if it’s completely untrue - rocks your world and makes you panic, I think you shouldn’t be invested in it at all.
Dunstan
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tomorrowman
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Sacrilege - Lets not forget the mission statement "Tesla's mission is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy.”
May ye burn in hell for doubting the writings of Lord Musk.
There only to make money indeed - such cynicism
BTC uses collosal amount of power and for what? If BTC didn't exist tomorrow, the world would be better off.
The price of has gone up 10x in a year, so losing 10% is nothing to cry over, it's still higher than when Tesla purchased 2.5bn a few months back.
The price of has gone up 10x in a year, so losing 10% is nothing to cry over, it's still higher than when Tesla purchased 2.5bn a few months back.
The same comment would be legitimate about any other 'influential' figure from Warren Buffet to a Youtube influencer on makeup prices. In Elon;s cae he just opens his mouth and puts his feet in...perhaps less sinister than the shenanigans surrounding lobbying for government support, billions sidelined to back pockets over NHS 'puters and software etc. The stock market is a volatile beast by nature and manipulated all the time.
True, but stocks are a regulated market. The last time Musk had foot in mouth disease and suggested he was thinking of taking Tesla private, he got fined by the SEC and had to step down as the company's chairman.
Elon, Buffett and co can't make public statements on stocks, which prevents - in the main - massive volatility. But yes, behind the scenes they are manipulated by whales, etc.
He littirally has ADHD.... So foot in mouth disease full time...
I personally find most people are offended or manipulated too easily these days. Nothing to do with Musk.
Thanks for the topic rename mods
Thing to remember is crypto is still a giant experiment. It could be another 10-20 years until it truly sees mass adoption. It's always been the wild west, I would just like someone as technologically evangelical as Elon to bring a measured voice, and appreciate his "playground" is in fact a young industry with lots of real people working hard to build utility and trust.
Agree about Dogecoin. For those in the know, these are just fun and crazy aspects of Crypto. For the new comers on twitter and tiktok, they are probably coins that burnt them very badly.
BTC, and crypto, is of course very volatile - and that's just a reflection of how young the markets still are. It hasn't been that long that institutional money has started to flow into BTC, and of course there's not yet the Billions in pension funds etc. The volatility will decrease, and the bear markets become softer each cycle. The Elon tweet impacts less so!
Thing to remember is crypto is still a giant experiment. It could be another 10-20 years until it truly sees mass adoption. It's always been the wild west, I would just like someone as technologically evangelical as Elon to bring a measured voice, and appreciate his "playground" is in fact a young industry with lots of real people working hard to build utility and trust.
Agree about Dogecoin. For those in the know, these are just fun and crazy aspects of Crypto. For the new comers on twitter and tiktok, they are probably coins that burnt them very badly.
It does use a ridiculous amount of power, but that is what protects the network and makes it so secure - and therefore valuable. Bitcoin has proven a lot to the world, and seeded a fast growing industry looking at a lot of technologies that will absolutely provide more financial inclusivity in the future. I think Bitcoin can and will become greener, but I also believe it will not remain No 1, and Ethereum will overtake it once it moves to it's environmentally friendly version (v2.0). Without decentralised currencies the World is heading towards larger and larger crashes. The same could be said for the increasingly centralised data monopoly of Facebook and Google. Blockchain is offering a prospect of a different future, it's just going to be a while until we get there.
tomorrowman
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I think a lot of people need to take a reality check - crypto currency is basically an investment with no intrinsic value.
It's the modern equivalent of a pyramid scheme whose movements are driven by influencers utterings on social media platforms and the response of their sheep i.e. followers.
Now I know this all sound a bit negative but I too purchased some bitcoin and sold when I realised a 60% profit (too years I purchased at 2018 peak) and yes could have made 100%+ profit if I had waited until Bitcoin got to $60K etc.
Key things to bear in mind when investing in cryptocurrency (in my view you may not agree)
It's the modern equivalent of a pyramid scheme whose movements are driven by influencers utterings on social media platforms and the response of their sheep i.e. followers.
Now I know this all sound a bit negative but I too purchased some bitcoin and sold when I realised a 60% profit (too years I purchased at 2018 peak) and yes could have made 100%+ profit if I had waited until Bitcoin got to $60K etc.
Key things to bear in mind when investing in cryptocurrency (in my view you may not agree)
- Treat it the same as sticking money in a fruit machine - it's a bet
- Don't stick your life savings in it - i.e. be happy to loose it all
- Buy low when influencers opens his/her mouth and price starts going up
- Don't get greedy - sell if/when you have made a decent return - Yes if your brought £1K of doge at a fraction of a cent and sold at 70c you would be a millionaire today - but if it was that easy we would all be doing it.
Alex987854
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While I'm no fan of Bitcoin, it's important not to forget the energy use of standard currencies. The computing power use of any transaction is non-negligible and is more complicated than updating the blockchain. I did see an article which I can't find that went into some detail.
And try not to think about the carbon cost of creating and transporting cash.
And try not to think about the carbon cost of creating and transporting cash.
Pyramid scheme is such a funny term. Thrown around willy nilly...
"Pyramid schemes—also referred to as franchise fraud or chain referral schemes—are marketing and investment frauds in which an individual is offered a distributorship or franchise to market a particular product. The real profit is earned, not by the sale of the product, but by the sale of new distributorships."
If you say crypto coin is not a "product", its a refferal of a product... Then yeah.
However I'd argue that you do actually get what you pay for - a real product - the key to your wallet. A store of your wealth. You can argue that it has no "intrinsic value". Then I'd argue that "value" is an artificial contruct assigned by sentient beings to a thing they want or need - meaning its only worth what someone else is willing to pay, therefore anything can have value as long as someone is willing to give something for it.
If you are going to call crypto a pyramid scheme, then basically everything in life, including life itself is a pyramid scheme. If you get in first, you win.
First to create a successfull company and profit? Pyramid scheme for the poor sods on the factory floor....
All the points you made apply to anything you buy, not just crypto.
Analysis shows its takes about 700k visa transactions to use the same amount of energy as 1 bitcoin transaction.
Bitcoin energy consumption 2023 | Statista
The average energy consumption for one single Bitcoin transaction in 2023 could equal several hundreds of thousands of VISA card transactions.
www.statista.com
tomorrowman
Member
I also didn't call it a pyramid scheme - namely in my view the modern equivalent thereof
Return is predicated on growing the investment into the currency thats not in itself wealth creeating, Cyrpto is arguably worse than traidtional pyrmaid schemes because at least in the traditional model a little wealth does get created through the sale of goods, Thats why so many people promote the thing, not because of what it does, but because they HAVE TO grow the investors and the inflow of money for the value to increase, It's simply driven by sentiment and when Musk says something negative, thats creating negative sentiment and the result is a net outflow of cash from the coin, when he says something positive it goes up.
There is no underlying value.
There is no underlying value.
I would like to see the info underlying the figures presented in that article, but am unwilling to sign up for a subscription for $39/month. It appears to be flawed but without the underlying data and analysis it's not possible to comment further.Analysis shows its takes about 700k visa transactions to use the same amount of energy as 1 bitcoin transaction.
Bitcoin energy consumption 2023 | Statista
The average energy consumption for one single Bitcoin transaction in 2023 could equal several hundreds of thousands of VISA card transactions.
+1. Or even try sending a more modest sum of money to a family member in another country involving a currency conversion. With BTC or other crypto I can do that for minimal fees and nearly instantaneously even on a weekend or middle of the night. With many banks, fees and costs aside, it can take a few days to be received.
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