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Elon "Anti-Selling"

Discussion in 'Tesla, Inc.' started by ohmman, May 4, 2017.

  1. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    Musk Employs Unusual Marketing Plan for Model 3: 'Anti-Selling'

    Regarding anti-selling due to worries about existing Model S owners trying to "upgrade" to a Model 3, I think there's something that they might be overlooking. In my case, I'd upgrade to a fully equipped Model 3 from my Model S if I feel it's relatively comparable. I want a smaller sedan since we have the Model X for trips with family, etc. But if the Model 3 doesn't match up, potentially by being crippled in options to differentiate from the Model S, I'll just keep my P85. So the outcomes are either a sale, or no sale. I recognize it's probably a relatively small portion of the trade-up population, but I'm guessing I'm not unique.
     
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  2. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    I am not a "trade-up" candidate either. I like the big car and being in suburbia have no "need" for a smaller car. I reserved with the intention of waiting but lost patience and bought an S. :)
    I still have my reservation though and want to see the 3 up close, sit in it etc....... before deciding what to do. I would really like it for the wife but she is reluctant to part with her precious Lexus every 3 years. I know, I know. Don't bother :) I have tried to convince her.
    Back to your point. I need at least one bigger car and will keep the S. Hopefully a 3 as a 2nd car.
     
  3. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    Part of the decision for me depends on (1) Is anything interesting revealed at Part 3. What don't we know? (2) What are the option packs? As you say, if they are 'limiting' the 3, it may very well not be the best option, even if you want a smaller (or not so humongous) vehicle.
     
  4. sdorn

    sdorn Director of Awesome

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    I have nothing to base this on other than my own hunch, but I think the Model 3 will compare to the Model S similarly to how a BMW 3 series compares to a 5 series or even a 7 series. I owned a 3 series years ago. It was actually my first "luxury" branded automobile. I thought it was really nice at the time. Then I later owned a Porsche, Infiniti, several higher end BMWs, Land Rover, etc. and then went back and test drove a 3 series again years later. It felt like a piece of *sugar*. I don't think I could go to a Model 3 after having the Model S.
     
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  5. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    I think there are many people who share your view. Based on the many recent communications from Elon emphasizing that the Model 3 is not just a scaled-down Model S, and that the S/X will not only get the latest technology before the 3 but will always have some features that the 3 will never have, my guess is that those in your position may well pass on buying a 3. And that would be quite understandable.

    But at this point we are just guessing because we don't have enough specifics about what the Model 3 options will be. We do know that there will be a Performance option and a Dual Motor option, though they won't be available until sometime next year or the end of this year at the earliest. In addition there will be a sunroof option, different wheel styles, and of course paint colors (I hope more than the current number!).

    We don't know what other options the 3 will have at launch, and of course we can't predict what options it will have in the future (besides Performance and Dual Motor).

    I believe Tesla deserves much of the blame for the widespread perception, after the 2016 Model 3 reveal, that the 3 would be a scaled-down S. Elon has now tried to correct that perception, and I think the message has gotten through to many reservation holders. I still think the 3 is going to sell in massive numbers, and the S continues to sell well considering the stratospheric price range it competes in.
     
  6. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    Model 3 = BMW 3 Series
    Model S = BMW M5

    How hard could it be to get this message across?
     
  7. Lasttoy

    Lasttoy Member

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    I think S = bmw750 is closer
    My neighbour has one, he said equal or better
    Some things are junk on S, sun visor with no lites. No hook to hang my dress coat, no hand grips to assist in out.
     
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  8. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Warning - Blasphemy Alert - Warning

    From 2016 first quarter update, according to Elon Musk:

    "Our objective with Model 3 is to create the world’s best car with a base price of $35,000, before any incentives, with a range of at least 215 miles on a single charge, and with strong gross margins. We plan to incorporate our best technology into Model 3, yet keep it relatively simple to build at high volume and with high quality."

    That might have been a bit ambitious of a statement.

    It appears reality could be rearing it's ugly head. It is not going to be a cake walk to make a profitable $35k "200 class" EV. But I think many of us knew that already. There is less than $2000 labor in a modern $35k car, so automation isn't going to do it. I cringe every time I hear somebody says robots will save us! Help, not save. The problem isn't labor costs, it's that EV powertrains are still higher than ICE equivalents. A 100mi EV powertrain is about $10,000 more than an ICE equivalent. A 200mi one is about $18,000 more. Some folk laugh at the Bolt EV as being a $19,500 car for $37,500. Well... yeah it certainly is.

    There is great fear that the Model 3 will be 'a lesser car' than a $33,500 stripped BMW 3 series. What you should be afraid of that in an effort to cut costs, there will be shortcuts in quality. I'll take a primo Golf over a mangled 328 anyday.

    I believe the Model 3 should focus on simplicity + quality first. It if has to lose the heated cupholders and chrome dog collars, so be it as long as the car is solid. If $35k becomes a barrier to quality, raise the price, reduce the features, do not lower the quality. People can forgive a price increase eventually. People never forgive or forget a lemon.
     
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  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    I took Elon's mention of 'anti-selling' as an attempt to prevent 'osborning,' and a bit of a self-congratulation that Model 3 reservations continue to increase without any Tesla pushing.
     
  10. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Well look at your own bolded part. It says world's best car with a base price of $35000. A lot of people just read the "world's best car" and ignored the second part. It may very well be the best car at that base price, but that does not mean it'll be better than the Model S at a higher price.

    I believe that is the part Elon is afraid people are missing.
     
  11. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Did Model 3 reservations increase? Tesla S/X sales were good, but customer deposits fell $47 million Q1 end. Since it's not broken down into down payment vs reservation, you can't really tell.
     
  12. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    I don't Elon is trying to anti-sell the Model 3 to keep up S/X sales, I think he's trying to adjust expectations to what is technically possible today for $35,000.
     
  13. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    #13 S4WRXTTCS, May 5, 2017
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
    I don't believe one bit as compared to the current S because once it's nicely equipped the Model 3 will be around the neighborhood of $50K-$60K. At those prices people have a certain expectations.

    What can they really take away that the current S has?

    They can't take away a powered lift gate because that's too common
    They can't take away heated seats because that's too common
    They can't take away awesome seats cause they don't have awesome seats to take away
    They can't take away the heated steering wheel because the Bolt has one.
    They can't take away awesome lights because the Model S/X doesn't have this

    They can make it slower
    They can have it have less range than the 100D.

    In some ways they're in a bit of a pickle because a lot of us bought the Model S knowing full well we were going to move to the Model 3. Where we got the Model S because of what it offered despite being the size of spaceship.

    So I think they'll try to maintain the appeal of the S by offering things like Tesla Glass, and much better suspension. We'll probably see a redesign to allow more room inside the interior. Maybe a butt, and foot massager. Hopefully a heated/cooled cupholder. One would think the Model S would have this.

    So I imagine in a couple years once I do switch to either a new Model S or a 3 that there will be some appeal to both. If they do screw up the 3 by not matching up with my expectations in a $50K car I'll switch to back to Audi. The thing about cars like the A8/7 series/etc is the luxurious niceties are what separates it. If a Model S was properly competitive to those cars in terms of luxury I would have very little interest in it. The ideal car for me has always been the 3 series, or the Audi S4/S5. Something nice without being insane.
     
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  14. Sluggah

    Sluggah Active Member

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    "upgrading" to a Model 3, um ok.
     
  15. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    The entire premise of the article is silly when you look at the numbers.

    US numbers:

    In the year prior to the Model 3 announcement, Tesla sold about 25k cars, since the Model 3 announcement, they sold about 50k cars.

    It doesn't seem the Model 3 announcement stagnated existing model sales.
     
  16. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    It appears to me you think that the words "best technology" mean "all the same options and features available on the Model S". That would be an incorrect assumption. Elon wasn't talking about fancy stuff like FW doors, self opening doors, automatically extending door handles, HEPA filters, monopost movable seats, dual displays, etc. He meant that the 3 would include the EAP sensor suite and eventuallly be fully autonomous, that it would use the latest (2170) cells, that it would have Supercharger capability built in,, that it could have Dual Motors, that it could have a high performance motor, etc.

    You think you are catching Elon in a lie, but you are simply making assumptions that turned out to be wrong.
    Again, someone made a set of assumptions about the Model 3 that turned out to be wrong. Elon never said that the 3 would be a smaller version of the S, even when fully optioned.
     
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  17. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    #17 McRat, May 5, 2017
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
    Lighten up Francis. I don't 'think' those words. You can find that text here: http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ABEA-4CW8X0/1034511691x0x889927/27EE2FDA-9C77-4D6A-8CEE-E8DFE45227BA/Q1_2016_Tesla_Shareholder_Letter.pdf

    The article in question theorizes Tesla Motors is losing Model S/X deposits, and there is no other possible explanation, so Elon is panicking, taking down the sail to brace for the storm as S/X sales tank due to the M3 upcoming release. There is no proof of that.

    There is some indication that Tesla Motors is worried about Model 3 costs. No AWD initially, pre-configured cars, announcement that it's not going to be a Model S competitor, etc. Use these clues instead of assuming deposit reductions are due to the pending release of the 3.
     
  18. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    Funny ... I still think of the Model 3 as the smaller version of the Model S ... but with few of the amenities that currently define a "luxury" car. More along the lines of having core Tesla technology and design language.
     
  19. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    I never had this expectation. I expected the Model 3 to be competitive with the 3 series BMW.

    What I was wrong about is i thought they were going to make the Model S more luxurious where it was more competitive to the BMW 5 series, and 7 series. Where I didn't really care about that, and I didn't mind what the S had.

    But, I didn't expect the 3 to turn into a Subaru from the 90's.
     
  20. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    What does the S have that currently defines a 100K luxury car?

    I go from my S into my Moms 2017 $35K Subaru Outback, and I honestly don't feel that big of a difference. The difference is the drivetrain.
     

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