Elon confirms new supercharger capabilities

[mitch672]

Quite possible CO, 180KW would mean more than (18) 10KW Model S chargers per SC, most likely 1/3 to 1/2 more than that, as currently each SC feeds 2 charging locations. Maybe they've designed something specialized that's less expensive than using the Model S charger module. Then there is the issue with increased cable thickness etc. I guess we'll find out next week.

 

[vfx]

My guess is 120kWh charging at Superchagers or hotels and some Teslive/Tesla puzzle math where it's technically faster to travel across the country charging at night while sleeping over time wasted doing multiple gas fill-ups.

 

[aronth5]

I think was discussed in another thread. But the motor + inverter + gear box is too big to fit in that cubby. If there's an AWD S, you'll lose more than just the cubby. And they have to shift around existing components to get the axel in and everything connected to it.

Agree. I was not trying to imply it would fit in that space just that the space is already accounted for. AWD.

 

[zeron]

Supercharger rollout has been slower than expected. When did they last introduce a new charging place? So their sunk costs might not be prohibitive to introducing a different way of charging, either through battery swaps or the proposed metal-air batteries.

 

[Chas F]

There is another possibility:
If you combine the current battery with a high-capacity supercapacitor, the cap could be charged in seconds (or maybe a few minutes) and then discharge into the battery at a rate faster than you could burn it off. Elon has mentioned the possible use of supercapacitors in the past year. Of course that would mean a hardware upgrade to the Model S. My guess would be it would be included as an option in the next generation of Model S/X/Gen III.
Just guessing....

 

[jomo25]

Then there is the issue with increased cable thickness etc. I guess we'll find out next week.

Maybe. The SC announcement is targeted next week. But the 5th announcement (under nose) is gonna be another 2-3 wks after that. And this what Elon mentioned after today's tweet. So, not sure if the SC announcement will just be SC or this new mysterious 'faster than gas fillup' one.

 

[shady]

Today -> Elon: There is a way for the Tesla Model S to be recharged throughout the country faster than you could fill a gas tank.

Hmmm?

Here is the gas tank he was referring to

 

[tander]

Is it this going to be this week or next week for the SC announcement? Teaser today, announcement tomorrow?

Maybe. The SC announcement is targeted next week. But the 5th announcement (under nose) is gonna be another 2-3 wks after that. And this what Elon mentioned after today's tweet. So, not sure if the SC announcement will just be SC or this new mysterious 'faster than gas fillup' one.

 

[Andrew Wolfe]

There is another possibility:
If you combine the current battery with a high-capacity supercapacitor, the cap could be charged in seconds (or maybe a few minutes) and then discharge into the battery at a rate faster than you could burn it off. Elon has mentioned the possible use of supercapacitors in the past year. Of course that would mean a hardware upgrade to the Model S. My guess would be it would be included as an option in the next generation of Model S/X/Gen III.
Just guessing....

I don't think so.

If my quick math is right - an ultracapacitor about the size of 2 coke cans is just over .30 WH. You would need 300,000 of them to hold an 85KW charge.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Maxwell-Technologies/BMOD0058-E016-B02/?qs=ljcHIlmXGrbhsbyf4oouFg%3D%3D&gclid=CKKnzLn7i7cCFWQ6QgodGV0AHQ

 

[Chas F]

I don't think so.

If my quick math is right - an ultracapacitor about the size of 2 coke cans is just over .30 WH. You would need 300,000 of them to hold an 85KW charge.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Maxwell-Technologies/BMOD0058-E016-B02/?qs=ljcHIlmXGrbhsbyf4oouFg%3D%3D&gclid=CKKnzLn7i7cCFWQ6QgodGV0AHQ

According to my read of the product specs, stored energy is more like 2 Wh than .3, which brings your estimate of 300K down to 43K (still a lot). And this is assuming using these 16V, off-the-shelf super caps, not some order-of-magnitude capacitance improvement as hinted by Elon. A hundred fold improvement over these would get you in the ballpark by my "quick math".

 

[jeff_adams]

I've always wondered about the "rocket towers" that were built by the original superchargers. Could they have a mysterious function? Wouldn't that be like Elon to hide some new technology under our noses? :smile:

 

[markb1]

I've always wondered about the "rocket towers" that were built by the original superchargers. Could they have a mysterious function? Wouldn't that be like Elon to hide some new technology under our noses? :smile:

Rocket towers, plural? They only ever built one supercharger obelisk, at the Telsa Design Center in Hawthorne. Pretty that just houses the superchargers, which are just big metal boxes behind cinder block walls at all the other supercharger sites.

 

[raymond]

What if they've found that 2C charging...

I have come to understand that Tesla uses its own cell chemistry co-developed with Panasonic. It would come as no surprise to me that they have tweaked the chemistry in such ways that it can deal with even 4C-charging. Some Li-ion chemistries go up to 20C, so 4C isn't all that spectacular. However...

"faster than you could fill a gas tank" -- at 5-10 gallons per minute a 20 gallon tank fills up in 2-4 minutes. Without resorting to Elon-math that means charging at 15-30C to even be *on par* with filling up a gas tank.

From the current 1C to 4C may be doable, but 15-30C would *really* surprise me.

My conclusion: It must be battery swapping after all, probably combined with the SC infrastructure. The demo will show how it's done, but I wouldn't expect anything on policies, pricing, etc.

 

[jeff_adams]

Rocket towers, plural? They only ever built one supercharger obelisk, at the Telsa Design Center in Hawthorne. Pretty that just houses the superchargers, which are just big metal boxes behind cinder block walls at all the other supercharger sites.

You're most likely right, but if the demonstration takes place in Hawthorne instead of Freemont......

 

[Andrew Wolfe]

According to my read of the product specs, stored energy is more like 2 Wh than .3, which brings your estimate of 300K down to 43K (still a lot). And this is assuming using these 16V, off-the-shelf super caps, not some order-of-magnitude capacitance improvement as hinted by Elon. A hundred fold improvement over these would get you in the ballpark by my "quick math".

Well one of us made a mistake.

Energy is .5CV^2 and should end up in Joules. (0.5) * (58F) * (16.2V) ^2 = 7610 Joules.

1 joule = 0.000277777778 watt hours

so 7610 Joules = 2.1WH.

Apparently - it was me...

(I think I used the voltage from a different data sheet)

 

[jeff_adams]

Maybe Elon was just waiting for Iron Man 3 to come out so he could introduce a "Tesla Coil" adapter for the frunk. Hehe.....

 

[joshuaeven]

You mean an Arc Reactor? Yes, please!

 

[AMPd]

SC announcement pushed to next week
something else will be talked about this week