Elon Confirms S & X Are Chopped Liver

[jerry33]

Not sure about others but I'm happily married and always a fanboy of my significant other half. I'm also a fanboy of the company I work for and most everything I have in life. That's just me though.

I'm an engineer and most of people I associate with are technology literate. That could make some difference of course. Either way I can't think of a reason anyone under the age of, say, 50 in this tech world would have a tough time to learn those things. No offense to people over 50 since I am one of you too.

It's not hard to learn, but most cars don't have door handles in the upper corner, so when it's the first time, you hunt a bit. FWIW, our marriage has been great for almost fifty years now.

 

[CarlK]

It's not hard to learn, but most cars don't have door handles in the upper corner, so when it's the first time, you hunt a bit. FWIW, our marriage has been great for almost fifty years now.

Yeah I can almost tell by talking to someone for a few minutes who would have a great marriage and who would not.

I have to pull the door handle twice in my brother's car to open it. Sometime I'd forget about it after a long while not riding in his car. I only laughed at myself for not being able to remember or figure it out instead of complaining to my brother what a lousy design that was.

 

[AlMc]

Off topic..... or is it? I am not a fan of liver..whole or chopped. But we all need one to rid our bodies of impurities.

I do however have great respect for Ohmman, who I know and Jerry whose posts are generally very informative wherever he is posting (great knowledge about tires IIRC)

 

[tomas]

Off topic..... or is it? I am not a fan of liver..whole or chopped. But we all need one to rid our bodies of impurities.

I do however have great respect for Ohmman, who I know and Jerry whose posts are generally very informative wherever he is posting (great knowledge about tires IIRC)

I have great respect for any member who weathers a dispute and repeated put downs from another member, remaining humorous and self effacing rather than having a hissy fit or unloading in return. We should all remember that for next time.... nah, too much fun shooting back!!!

 

[Mattzilla]

Cute underhanded personal attack. I assure you, I'm quite capable of learning.

• We cannot get out of the car simultaneously. You have to wait for one or the other to go first. This is less convenient than normal doors, even if it's manageable.
• In my garage and most parking garages as well as narrow parking spaces, the falcon wing door stops with the corner edge at face level. It's impossible to pass until the door has been closed again. If one of my kids tries to open the falcon wing door while I'm getting out, the door won't open because of me being an obstruction. This situation cannot exist with normal doors because of the hinge placement.
• New passengers require an education on the door. I just had guests in town and one kept standing in the way of the door in parking lots. I told her, oh, you have to push the handle, back up out of the way, let it open, then come back into it. They found it awkward, because it is.
• When parallel parking, I always have to be concerned about street signs. The sensor doesn't do a good job of identifying them. I've already had my son open his door into one, which dented and scraped the door. With a normal door, it's obvious where to stop. The part that hits the door is the sign, not the post. The door raises into it. I'm not the only one to complain about this issue on TMC.

I could list plenty of situations, but I've known you on here long enough to realize you aren't going to see my point of view, which is fine. I'm glad you and your daily back seat passengers are having a great time with the doors. We aren't, and every owner I know in real life agrees with me. So consider yourself a lucky guy!

Hey Ohmman, thank you for posting this. As someone who is on the fence about getting a new Raven X, do you suspect that any of these sensor issues related to the FWDs might be improved in newer Model Xs or do you think it's a fundamental design flaw that will likely not change so long as the FWDs exist? Thanks

 

[aesculus]

Tesla Model X Falcon Wing Door Issue Discovered

 

[jerry33]

Hey Ohmman, thank you for posting this. As someone who is on the fence about getting a new Raven X, do you suspect that any of these sensor issues related to the FWDs might be improved in newer Model Xs or do you think it's a fundamental design flaw that will likely not change so long as the FWDs exist? Thanks

As long as the cameras and sensors cover the problem area, it should be able to be fixed through software. If they don't cover the area, then a hardware fix would also be required.

 

[ohmman]

Hey Ohmman, thank you for posting this. As someone who is on the fence about getting a new Raven X, do you suspect that any of these sensor issues related to the FWDs might be improved in newer Model Xs or do you think it's a fundamental design flaw that will likely not change so long as the FWDs exist? Thanks

I'll PM you since as @AlMc pointed out, this is off topic here.

 

[wooter]

It seems Model X owners have different issues with the FWD's... I like them, but I can't say they have been flawless. I do believe the Model X with classic doors would considerably change the car though, in a negative sense, even with all the issues you can have... The automatic opening and closing of doors are something unique and space-age of the Model X which no other car has (or not in that sense) and adds to the futuristic experience of having a car that can drive itself (partially) and make no sound.

If you want a roomy 5-6-7 seat electric SUV, get a Model X. Don't let the FWD's scare you away. It's no Honda Odyssey, but it's considerably roomier than an e-tron.

 

[Mattzilla]

S and X have free unlimited supercharging again.

Chopped liver never tasted so good.

 

[ElectricLee]

I better order a Model X before they stop production.

 

[AlMc]

I better order a Model X before they stop production.

If you do so soon..they just reinstituted 'free lifetime supercharging'

 

[ajdelange]

I just calculated in another thread that the average driver (12k mi/yr, 333 Wh/mi. $0.11 kWh) would save about $440/yr if he did all his charging at SC's. For the amount of super charging I do my freebie would be $39. Wow!

 

[alloverx]

Not to mention the battery damage if you SC every single time. Especially to a high state-of-charge.

 

[Terthen]

Hey Ohmman, thank you for posting this. As someone who is on the fence about getting a new Raven X, do you suspect that any of these sensor issues related to the FWDs might be improved in newer Model Xs or do you think it's a fundamental design flaw that will likely not change so long as the FWDs exist? Thanks

It’s fundamentally the same imo. I have a 2016 X. Sensors will not solve every situation, but overall I love the FWD. Whlie people can name tons of situations FWD might have issues like street signs, the same can be said for regular doors. It’s much easier to get kids in and out of FWD than regular doors when parked next to another car. It’s way easier to get kids into our X than our 3 in all situations. If you park next to the curb to close or to a mailbox or street sign in a regular door and swing your door open, it’s going to hit that too. Instead of getting in or out simulataneously, I pre-open the doors with the remote as I’m walking up.. so having the doors powered is awesome. Same for the drivers side door, i can get in, put my coffee and phone down while pressing the brake to shut that door, so there are other ways to save time.

Overall the FWD have been excellent. I do step out of the car to check opening positions, but I have a no problems with that. I’d do that in many parking garages anyhow if I’m parking near posts or walls and my kids are getting out. It’s worth the “inconvenience” i suppose of checking opening positions of the door compared to squeezing my kids out of our 3 when we take that and park next to other cars. I would admit Sliding doors would have worked just as well, but even after 3 years owning the car, I still think the FWD are an engineering marvel.

 

[RDoc]

I better order a Model X before they stop production.

Hmm, that makes me wonder about what happens to X/S buyers if they do stop production. I've been planning to replace our S with a new one in a year or so once Tesla as a company settles down a bit.

However, if they do stop production, the parts situation, which now isn't great, may become really a mess. If they aren't producing the cars, keeping lines open just to produce spares seems pretty questionable.

 

[ElectricLee]

Buy one every year. Then rent them out.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

I don't think they are even thinking about stopping production. That would make zero sense. I think what Elon meant was for people to quit worrying about S and X sales, because they are going to sell a lot more 3's and the S and X numbers aren't that important. He knows they aren't chopped liver.

 

[MiddKid]

It’s fundamentally the same imo. I have a 2016 X. Sensors will not solve every situation, but overall I love the FWD. Whlie people can name tons of situations FWD might have issues like street signs, the same can be said for regular doors. It’s much easier to get kids in and out of FWD than regular doors when parked next to another car. It’s way easier to get kids into our X than our 3 in all situations. If you park next to the curb to close or to a mailbox or street sign in a regular door and swing your door open, it’s going to hit that too. Instead of getting in or out simulataneously, I pre-open the doors with the remote as I’m walking up.. so having the doors powered is awesome. Same for the drivers side door, i can get in, put my coffee and phone down while pressing the brake to shut that door, so there are other ways to save time.

Overall the FWD have been excellent. I do step out of the car to check opening positions, but I have a no problems with that. I’d do that in many parking garages anyhow if I’m parking near posts or walls and my kids are getting out. It’s worth the “inconvenience” i suppose of checking opening positions of the door compared to squeezing my kids out of our 3 when we take that and park next to other cars. I would admit Sliding doors would have worked just as well, but even after 3 years owning the car, I still think the FWD are an engineering marvel.

I'll be the counter point. I love my MX but if I could swap out the FWDs I would in a second. A few of the issues:

• I've had two times now where a FWD refused to open or close. Try to open and it says obstacle detected and won't move. Try to close and it says obstacle detected and won't move. The first time I drove it 45 minutes to the service center with the door beeping the whole way. Got there and they simply said it started working again and couldn't replicate it. Second time was a month ago. This one was super fun since we went to my daughter's dance recital and had a few items in the car which could be considered valuable. Happened again and the door wouldn't open or close. Because the car THOUGHT the door was open it refused to lock. I sat through the entire performance knowing my car was unlocked (visually the door looks closed though). Went out at intermission, couldn't get it to reset. Drove home with it beeping again. Got into the garage and it started working. Hasn't happened since.
• Twice now I've had ultrasonic sensors replaced in a door because when it gets hot the sensor peels back from the door (on the inside) then detects the door as an obstacle and won't open. I have many great videos of a door refusing to open with nothing but open air next to it. Hasn't happened again since the most recent sensor replacement, but the work done was exactly the same thing they did months ago...not sure why it will work now. So fun to tell your kids as they run up to your car..."no, you can't get in on that side, go around." "Why Dad?" "Because it's sunny out and the door won't open."
• My three kids HATE the doors. Dropping them off somewhere, the hate stems from:
  • The doors are slower to open/close than normal doors (they're always in a rush)
  • Invariably, being impatient, someone hits the close button before it's fully open resulting in the "beep beep beep" and the door stopping.
  • I've lost count of the number of times we've accidentally hip checked someone with the door (e.g. person getting out of the front seat gets hit with the FWD). I've been hit in the head a few times.
  • I get that when it detects an obstacle it raises slower, but it goes SO SLOW (see sub bullet one). Then it stops 3/4 of the way.
  • Kid jumps out of the car, backpack barely brushes the door..."beep beep beep." Door stops.
  • Daughters aged 9, 12, and 14. They all think the doors are embarrassing.
• Visually, the lines of the car are never just right. The handles are mis-aligned, the trim is mis-aligned, the doors close at different depths (and this changes over time). When I bring it up with service they say "we can only do so much, if we fix that mis-alignment, something else will be mis-aligned."
• I live in a wet climate. Had to get the seals fixed for water intrusion issues.

If you get all excited because other people look and gasp when they open and you hear "that's so cool"...great. For me, I'd rather have doors that my kids can just get in and out of.

OK, the Holiday Light Show is pretty fun. Ha!

 

[ecarfan]

He then said S/X is not important in the long term, and in the context of the 3, Y, pickup truck and semi, S & X will stabilize at 80k-100k per year and represent around 5% of total sales essentially as a niche product.

And that makes a lot of sense to me. The market for $100K cars is tiny compared to the total car market. I remain amazed that Tesla has sold as many S/X as they have over the past 7 years. Cars in that price range sell in very small volumes. And those are traditional ICE vehicles! EVs in that price range other than Tesla still don’t exist. The i-Pace and e-Tron are less expensive and far less capable, they aren’t real competition to the S/X. But the S/X continue to sell. They both have been significantly improved since they were introduced, and they will continue to improve incrementally, but there is little reason for Tesla to make major changes to them. They beat everything in their class.

But it was the first part of his response -- that the models are basically living on in the product portfolio as a placeholder -- that made me queasy about replacing our 2018 X with a Raven.

You are putting words into Elon’s mouth. He is simply being honest; the S/X are vehicles in a small niche market.

Your 2018 X is an incredibly capable car. If after just one year you want to replace it with a new X that has a slightly different suspension feel and a slightly longer range, that’s your choice of course. But the differences are small. I assume you have driven a new X. What do you think of the changes?

For Tesla to reach its goal of changing the automotive industry, they need mass market appeal. S and X were always niche products given the cost.

Agreed.

I agree with another poster that if the S and X aren’t updated, we might have to go back to a gas car for one of our two cars. Not ideal, but we’re not getting another X at this point.

I am curious as to why you think an ICE would be a better choice compared to an S/X?