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Well you got a point there and I certainly agree, but just to put things into perspective, America is barely in the top 5 of countries where litigation is popular to solve a problem.Elon said driverless this year and didn't mention needing protection.
Poll of the week: When not have to pay attention to Tesla Driver
Yes this is a sue happy country, so that is why I and others are dubious of Elon's claim of driverless this year
It is a moving goal post because Elon clearly said he was confident in L5 this year but now he is saying that he is only confident in "FSD" being safer than human driving. Those are two completely goals. You don't need L5 to be safer than human driving. Tesla could achieve "safer than human driving" without achieving L5.
Sir! You are splitting heirs and semantics, here. Tesla has clearly stated in the contract terms that it is subject to regulatory approvals and Elon has often iterated that regulators can only be convinced by data of FSD being superhuman. The only moving goalpost is that you have been fooled to pay for FSD in advance and there is no end in sight.
Yeah, level 5 is a pipe dream not happening this decade.
I get the fact that everyone is typically focused on level 5 where the car doesn't have a driver, aka robotaxi. However, that capability is not needed for FSD to dramatically change the automotive landscape with Tesla likely the first major car company to benefit.Yeah, level 5 is a pipe dream not happening this decade. We'd make a ton of money if Elon put money behind his level 5 words, in other words accepted bets.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1345208391958888448
There is no regulation stopping Elon in several states.
I get the fact that everyone is typically focused on level 5 where the car doesn't have a driver, aka robotaxi.
However, that capability is not needed for FSD to dramatically change the automotive landscape with Tesla likely the first major car company to benefit.
Lets assume for a minute that I have to:
1) pay close attention for the first minute after I set the destination
2) the last minute when I'm arriving at my destination so I can drive into parking lot areas as needed
3) during the drive when FSD runs into an edge case like a closed road or police redirecting traffic. In none of these cases would I need to take over immediately to avoid an accident just an alert to take over within a minute.
This would let me read, text message, browse or watch Netflix. The value would be enormous and waiting for Level 5 without a driver doesn't have to be the end all be all that so many are fixated on. Tesla's revenue upside in this scenario is very significant.
FYI, that's not the key characteristic of L5. L4 can also be a car with no driver. L5 is a car with no driver yes, but it has the additional requirement that it has to be able to drive everywhere, day and night, and in all weather and driving conditions that a human can be expected to handle, with no human intervention ever.
That's why robotaxi companies like Waymo are focused on L4 instead of L5. L4 is easier. L4 is also a car with no driver but it does not need to work everywhere. It can be a car with no driver but limited to just a particular area, like say 1 city.
True, Tesla does not need to achieve a "car with no driver" in order to provide a big benefit to Tesla owners. But if it still requires a driver, it would not be FSD. Tesla should not call it FSD in that case. Sorry if I am coming across as pedantic. But I just think it is important that we not dumb down FSD.
You seem to be describing L3. That would not be FSD since it still requires a driver. That's cool. I agree that L3 would be a big benefit to owners. However, Elon is adamant that they are doing L5.
I haven’t particularly kept up with regulations, but which states currently allow the public sale & use of cars without human drivers on all public roads?
Personally I don't care what L level it is associated with. What I do know is the constant back and forth amongst forum members arguing over the different L levels is tiresome and I now skip those postings. What I described would satisfy the needs of the vast majority of drivers and would be a major disruptor to the industry. I also believe it's reasonably attainable which would make FSD really valuable and worth people buying.
Not sure what you are complaining about. Elon said he's confident that Tesla would achieve level 5 self-driving this year. He hasn't changed or "walked back" that statement in any way. Somebody says "bet you don't" and Elon replies saying something tangential. He may as well have said "Nice weather we're having." so far as his original statement is concerned. He's not taking the bet, is he? That doesn't change anything.FYI, that's not the key characteristic of L5. L4 can also be a car with no driver. L5 is a car with no driver yes, but it has the additional requirement that it has to be able to drive everywhere, day and night, and in all weather and driving conditions that a human can be expected to handle, with no human intervention ever.
That's why robotaxi companies like Waymo are focused on L4 instead of L5. L4 is easier. L4 is also a car with no driver but it does not need to work everywhere. It can be a car with no driver but limited to just a particular area, like say 1 city.
True, Tesla does not need to achieve a "car with no driver" in order to provide a big benefit to Tesla owners. But if it still requires a driver, it would not be FSD. Tesla should not call it FSD in that case. Sorry if I am coming across as pedantic. But I just think it is important that we not dumb down FSD.
You seem to be describing L3. That would not be FSD since it still requires a driver. That's cool. I agree that L3 would be a big benefit to owners. However, Elon is adamant that they are doing L5.
Except the regulator approval thing is total BS since we know several States like AZ where Tesla could deploy driverless cars today if they wanted to. Now perhaps Elon is seeking regulatory approval because he is only interested in deploying driverless when he can do it everywhere at the same time. But regulations do allow Tesla to deploy driverless cars in some areas now if Tesla wanted to.
Not sure what you are complaining about. Elon said he's confident that Tesla would achieve level 5 self-driving this year. He hasn't changed or "walked back" that statement in any way. Somebody says "bet you don't" and Elon replies saying something tangential. He may as well have said "Nice weather we're having." so far as his original statement is concerned. He's not taking the bet, is he? That doesn't change anything.
I wouldn't take that bet either. It would just get into wrangling about how precisely to define the corner cases. Can the car take verbal instructions from a traffic officer? in any language? and hand signals? Can it handle a bridge out situation? How about a wildfire? a flood? What will it do in a war zone? Or a riot? How about if people mess with it? Is all this well defined?
As I see it, if Tesla FSD can't meet the minimum requirements of the level 5 spec in 2021, then Elon got it wrong again. If it can, he can declare victory. But it's just shorthand. What he is really interested in is a car that's safer than humans can drive it. Preferably all the time everywhere, but most of the time in most places would be great.
Anyone who has been watching Musk for more than 5 minutes should know better than to spout about what he should do, how he should be “held accountable”, etc. Tesla has been the market maker that put EVs on the map, and pushed the envelope on autonomy. Now, no car maker doesn’t have an electric car on the road or in the works, and few offer cars without significant driver assist and intent for more. All that done without advertising. You expect him to stop tweeting aspirations as if they were fact? Or think he “shouldn’t”? Suggest just not taking it literally. Seriously, but not literally.
Elon's been very confident of this and that, but he's been wrong about his confidence. Is he lying?
Also, as I said, level 5 is not actually defined. Some people will interpret level 5 as some sort of general intelligence (for example if a cop uses a megaphone to tell the car what to do). Others will simply see it as statistical human level in terms of safety. Elon can say level 5 if he wants because there's no consensus about what it actually means.
Tesla and Elon said automatic driving in city streets in 2019. Didn't happen.He might not be *lying* about this, since it's not entirely within his control. However, things within his control have been promised and then never happened, which is absolutely lying.
Also, as I said, level 5 is not actually defined. Some people will interpret level 5 as some sort of general intelligence (for example if a cop uses a megaphone to tell the car what to do). Others will simply see it as statistical human level in terms of safety. Elon can say level 5 if he wants because there's no consensus about what it actually means.