Elon: "Feature complete for full self driving this year"

[Daniel in SD]

Wondering how it can be unsafe if you are suppose to watch over it. Worst case is you don't invoke it.

Paradoxically the current build is probably perfectly safe because it's so terrifyingly bad that no one would even consider looking away from the road. They'd just have to worry about Youtubers doing stupid stunts and of course the embarrassment of showing their current progress.
I don't recall anyone getting into an accident using the first release of AP2.

 

[daniel]

Wondering how it can be unsafe if you are suppose to watch over it. Worst case is you don't invoke it.

I was thinking of the eventual release of Level 3, 4, or 5 autonomy.

 

[Az_Rael]

 

[willow_hiller]

I had forgotten that Elon actually clarified what he meant by "feature complete" in the Q3 2019 earnings call. I would say this is in-between those of us who say it's just a software term, and those expecting more:

"Yeah, feature-complete, I mean, it’s — the car is able to drive from one’s house to work, most likely without interventions. So it will still be supervised, but it will be able to drive — it will fill in the gap from low-speed autonomy — low-speed autonomy with Summon. You’ve got high-speed autonomy on the highway, and intermediate speed autonomy, which really just means traffic lights and stop signs.

So feature-complete means it’s most likely able to do that without intervention, without human intervention, but it would still be supervised. And I’ve gone through this timeline before several times, but it is often misconstrued that there’s three major levels to autonomy. There’s the car being able to be autonomous but requiring supervision and intervention at times. That’s feature complete. Then there’s — and it doesn’t mean like every scenario, everywhere on earth, including ever corner case, it just means most of the time,"

Source: Tesla Full Self-Driving nears 'feature-complete' as 2019 comes to a close

 

[Barklikeadog]

Paradoxically the current build is probably perfectly safe because it's so terrifyingly bad that no one would even consider looking away from the road. They'd just have to worry about Youtubers doing stupid stunts and of course the embarrassment of showing their current progress.
I don't recall anyone getting into an accident using the first release of AP2.

Saw an interesting one today. 2 lanes each way with a turn lane, main road, def not highway, but busy road SL 25 or 35.
Behind a black Model X.

Red light coming up, Model X hits the brakes to a stop about 100ft short of the intersection... then it crawls forward towards the light.
WTF?
Next red light same thing, hits the brakes, then crawls up to light.

Turns green and car sits there for a few seconds before moving.
Faster moving traffic goes around the X

Model X is creeping up to another red light, I get in the left turn lane, pull alongside and see:

 

[daniel]

I had forgotten that Elon actually clarified what he meant by "feature complete" in the Q3 2019 earnings call. I would say this is in-between those of us who say it's just a software term, and those expecting more:

"Yeah, feature-complete, I mean, it’s — the car is able to drive from one’s house to work, most likely without interventions. So it will still be supervised, but it will be able to drive — it will fill in the gap from low-speed autonomy — low-speed autonomy with Summon. You’ve got high-speed autonomy on the highway, and intermediate speed autonomy, which really just means traffic lights and stop signs.

So feature-complete means it’s most likely able to do that without intervention, without human intervention, but it would still be supervised. And I’ve gone through this timeline before several times, but it is often misconstrued that there’s three major levels to autonomy. There’s the car being able to be autonomous but requiring supervision and intervention at times. That’s feature complete. Then there’s — and it doesn’t mean like every scenario, everywhere on earth, including ever corner case, it just means most of the time,"

Source: Tesla Full Self-Driving nears 'feature-complete' as 2019 comes to a close

Thank you. I'd say it's now pretty clear what Elon means by feature complete: The car is still Level 2 but seldom requires interventions driving in the city or on the highway. Definitely not where we're at.

I gather that people who paid for FSD still have nothing that EAP does not have, other than a better screen-display image, and then only if they have HW3. And upgrades from HW2.5 have not yet begin for Model 3 and only a very few have been done for Model S and X. And no upgrades in sight for HW2.0.

 

[willow_hiller]

And upgrades from HW2.5 have not yet begin for Model 3

I believe a few have actually begun, but it's even fewer than for S/X Tesla Model 3 gets Full Self-Driving HW3 upgrade: Full details with lessons learnedi

 

[Kiwiadventure]

It's going to be years before level 5 if ever. My M3 has FSD but hardly nothing changes and still the same phantom braking in the same places as 4 months ago.

 

[DigAdrenaline]

It's going to be years before level 5 if ever. My M3 has FSD but hardly nothing changes and still the same phantom braking in the same places as 4 months ago.

I’m the opposite.

My car use to fail at exit ramps. Now its problem free.

It used to struggle passing on the highway. Now, no issues, PLUS, I don’t need to initiate it anymore.

It drives to me through parking lots by itself, albeit poorly.

Auto wipers, Sentry mode. And who could forget Emissions testing... The improvements are continual and significant over time. That’s why I want MCU2, and I’m clearly not alone in that.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Red light coming up, Model X hits the brakes to a stop about 100ft short of the intersection... then it crawls forward towards the light.
WTF?
Next red light same thing, hits the brakes, then crawls up to light.

I think that's can be partially attributed to a fairly recent brake hold that fully enables one pedal driving. Where they're letting off the throttle too early so they end up coming to a stop too soon. I've done it myself without any distracted driving at all. Now it wasn't 100ft too short, but it was enough that I went "Oh, man. I must look silly", and after a bit I got better at feeling it out.

One of my dislikes about the Tesla implementation is the regen isn't consistent like it is on other EV's. Like if it's cold out it simply doesn't regen.

I think what you witnessed was someone being careless while totally distracted.

The car can't stop for stop lights in the current release of NoA.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

View attachment 498974

Wow.. Trent won the twitter lottery for the day.

Good for him except he let Elon give him a "soon" answer/non-answer. Ouch!

 

[Kiwiadventure]

I’m the opposite.

My car use to fail at exit ramps. Now its problem free.

It used to struggle passing on the highway. Now, no issues, PLUS, I don’t need to initiate it anymore.

It drives to me through parking lots by itself, albeit poorly.

Auto wipers, Sentry mode. And who could forget Emissions testing... The improvements are continual and significant over time. That’s why I want MCU2, and I’m clearly not alone in that.

There it hope, but it is fun being on the road to level 5.

 

[Barklikeadog]

I think that's can be partially attributed to a fairly recent brake hold that fully enables one pedal driving. Where they're letting off the throttle too early so they end up coming to a stop too soon. I've done it myself without any distracted driving at all. Now it wasn't 100ft too short, but it was enough that I went "Oh, man. I must look silly", and after a bit I got better at feeling it out.

One of my dislikes about the Tesla implementation is the regen isn't consistent like it is on other EV's. Like if it's cold out it simply doesn't regen.

I think what you witnessed was someone being careless while totally distracted.

The car can't stop for stop lights in the current release of NoA.

interesting. she was pretty locked in on that sundae, no eyes on the road attal when slowing down for that final light (There was a car ahead of her at this light unlike the others) With no hands on the wheel, do you get nagged if you are using the pedals?

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

interesting. she was pretty locked in on that sundae, no eyes on the road attal when slowing down for that final light (There was a car ahead of her at this light unlike the others) With no hands on the wheel, do you get nagged if you are using the pedals?

With Adaptive Cruise only you get don't get nagged at all.

With AP you don't really get nagged that much going slow so she could have been using it, but it won't stop unless there is a car there. If there is a car there then it will stop at a normal distance behind it.

So to me it looks like she was manually driving, but driving extremely distracted. People are horrible drivers when they're distracted. So it sounds like that's the case, and it's made worse due to the way the vehicle hold feature works so she ends up stopping short.

 

[daniel]

It's going to be years before level 5 if ever. My M3 has FSD but hardly nothing changes and still the same phantom braking in the same places as 4 months ago.

They're no longer promising Level 5. They're promising autopilot at Level 2 city and highway that only very rarely needs intervention from the driver. Of course, they're nowhere near that either.

I’m the opposite.

My car use to fail at exit ramps. Now its problem free.

It used to struggle passing on the highway. Now, no issues, PLUS, I don’t need to initiate it anymore.

It drives to me through parking lots by itself, albeit poorly.

Auto wipers, Sentry mode. And who could forget Emissions testing... The improvements are continual and significant over time. That’s why I want MCU2, and I’m clearly not alone in that.

All of which you'd have with EAP. People who have EAP and also paid for FSD have not yet gotten anything for their FSD money except improved screen graphics, and not even that without HW3, which very few HW2.5 cars have and no HW2.0 cars have.

... One of my dislikes about the Tesla implementation is the regen isn't consistent like it is on other EV's. Like if it's cold out it simply doesn't regen.

My old Prius didn't do regen and wouldn't go into EV mode when the battery was too cold. I wouldn't expect any EV to do regen on a very cold battery.

 

[Dutchie]

They're no longer promising Level 5. They're promising autopilot at Level 2 city and highway that only very rarely needs intervention from the driver. Of course, they're nowhere near that either.

That was only for feature complete. Goal still is level 5 with a Robotaxi fleet. After feature complete system will develop further towards that goal.

 

[willow_hiller]

This is mainly about honoring open-source software licences, but related to this thread it seems like Tesla is doing some pretty major refactoring of their code: green on Twitter

I feel like we're getting a series of small clues that some big FSD features are coming very soon.

 

[diplomat33]

I feel like we're getting a series of small clues that some big FSD features are coming very soon.

It would stand to reason that Tesla is trying to get "traffic light & stop sign response" and "automatic driving on city streets" ready for release as soon as possible since those are the last two features promised on the FSD order page.

 

[Thp3]

We’ve been stuck on 2019.40.x which is October 2019 code ( week 40). That’s the time Tesla closed on a neural net company. Tesla's DeepScale acquisition is a play for efficient neural networks, faster OTA updates I hoped Tesla was incorporating the technology into Autopilot software. So maybe that’s the code update that green on Twitter is noticing.

The technology is supposed to dramatically improve neural net software. I’m hoping it runs on HW2.5.

 

[Eno Deb]

This is mainly about honoring open-source software licences, but related to this thread it seems like Tesla is doing some pretty major refactoring of their code: green on Twitter

Just to avoid misunderstandings, what they have on their public repo is just the source of their platform (which is based on open source components), as far as they are required to publish it to comply with the respective open source licenses. That includes things like the Linux kernel and a number of other well known open source projects. They obviously don't publish the source of the actual Autopilot software (which runs as an application on top of the platform). This repo doesn't imply anything about the state of Autopilot.