rxlawdude
Active Member
Yes. And the list seems to grow. I guess trolls reproduce faster than humans.
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Elon: FSD Beta tweets
- Thread starter Terminator857
- Start date
I bought my second Tesla car in 2018. At that time the website described the FSD as true L5 autonomy system. No "ifs" and "buts".
And unlike many people here I actually read the car sale contract (and opted out of mandatory arbitration) and it does not define the "FSD" in any way. And neither does the 2021 contract, btw.
So what should people believe? Perhaps we should all agree that "FSD" means that Elon should give each customer $100 million so that they can hire a personal driver for life? I think that's a very fair and unbiased reading of the "FSD".
but it never said when that would happen.... reading....
ok then...
What it said. You are buying the right to a (in your case) level five system for your car whenever it gets released. Could be 2 years could be 20....
It absolutely said that you were buying a car with the HW capability of FSD at a level safer than a human, on the day you bought your car. Not a future upgrade. The car you buy has hardware that is capable.
Even Tesla acknowledges that this is now known to be not true. Tesla tried, and it had insufficient processing power. It can't even detect a red light.
Hacked Autopilot had traffic light detection back in 2019 working on HW2/.5, but it wasn't very consistent:
Watch Tesla Autopilot stopping at red light on its own for first time [Warning: not available yet]
Tesla is currently making some interesting moves to slowly transition its Autopilot system from a driver assist system for highway...
electrek.co
I suppose technically the SAE levels of autonomy are design intent of capabilities but doesn't really capture attributes like quality, consistency or smoothness. A level 5 system with insufficient processing power could theoretically detect some red lights and respond to them perhaps with a few seconds delay resulting in harsh braking or running red lights, so it seems unlikely regulators would approve of this system for public use.
Basically, it seems like Tesla has multiple "outs" as I believe it was always with "software validation" and "regulatory approval," so even if FSD gets approval for Level 5 public use with HW3 or some future hardware, Tesla could claim they're still working on optimizing it to run on older hardware or have regulators disapprove a poor implementation on old hardware. I would totally be upset if Tesla ended up doing this as it was very misleading, but I guess for now we'll continue waiting.
Tesla made it clear their definition of FSD is "at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver."
Andrej, Q3 2018 Tesla Call:
Andrej says it's not possible. Case closed.
Also, Elon, same call:
Hmm, and now, there IS a advantage ordering in Q2 vs Q1. You would have gotten HW3, and you could have subscribed to FSD without a $1K upcharge.
It was and still is a seamless process to upgrade to HW3 if you purchase FSD.
"What do you mean I can't 'rent' the software for a month and get 3x the value for free???"
What do you mean "All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver." means that I need a paid hardware upgrade to enable FSD on my car?
Tesla chose to say that in 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019. They even kept saying it when they knew it wasn't true, from Oct 2018-April 2019, after Kaparthy said the modern models couldn't run on HW2. By Tesla's own admission, the HW in 2016-2019 cars is NOT capable.
So why should a customer have to pay to upgrade, if the car was sold as already having this hardware capability?
Basically, you are a Tesla infestor who is trying hard to pump&dump the stock. Ok.
On the one hand I agree with you. They did advertise that and they are clearly wrong about it. It would be good PR for them to do the upgrade for free.
But on the other hand, I can't see any for profit company doing this, even if they did fall back on a promise. At least HW3 is backwards compatible. They could have said "tough luck" and not offered HW3 and any features above EAP on the older cars.
The only thing Tesla can be trusted to do is whatever is in their own best interests. They will never do anything for their customers except the bare minimum that keeps them from being sued, and sometimes not even that.
Everyone who sits around pretending like Elon and his cronies are any better than the executives at Exxon or Nestle or Monsanto or any other awful company need to stop deluding themselves.
Everyone who sits around pretending like Elon and his cronies are any better than the executives at Exxon or Nestle or Monsanto or any other awful company need to stop deluding themselves.
And this is why we unfortunately need to take advantage of small claims, arbitration, and class actions. If we allow companies to say whatever they want to get customers to buy a product, but then just say "welp, yep, why would any for profit company actually keep up on a promise after a sale?" and never hold them to that promise, we'll have anarchy. So we have to actually use the courts to hold them to their promises and actually incur losses for advertising things that are not true, or they will run rampant.
You realize that your 4 year warranty on your car is just a promise that no logical for profit company would do, right? It's a warranty that the car will do what it was advertised as doing for a specific time period. Guess what warrantied cars don't do that they were promised to do....
While the safety data that Waymo released is very encouraging that Waymo is safe, 6M miles is not enough data to statistically prove that Waymo is safer than humans. Waymo needs more data to actually prove safety with high confidence. I believe it is one reason why Waymo is investing so much in Simulation City. If you try to brute force it with only real world miles, you need about 2B miles to prove safety. So if Waymo wants to get out of the geofence, they are going to need a lot more than 6M miles to prove safety. If they can get Simulation City to be a reliable measure of safety, then Waymo can use it to supplement their real world safety data and prove safety that way, a lot faster than trying to just brute force it.
You cant use simulations in your test set to define the accuracy of your algorithm. This is a MAJOR data science / algorithm faux pax.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I don't think that is what Waymo is doing. They plan to use the simulation to validate real world performance which they argue you can do if the simulation is realistic enough:
Source: Waypoint - The official Waymo blog: Simulation City: Introducing Waymo's most advanced simulation system yet for autonomous driving
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Times have been very tough for the trolls. It's ridiculous, but autosteer city/FSD is basically the last thing they can point and sputter at.
I remember when the trolls were salivating over imminent bankwuptcy due to Tesla servicing their debt. Tesla is supposedly going to retire a significant portion of their outstanding debt. I imagine Tesla won't have any long-term outstanding debt in the near future.
I remember when the trolls were salivating over imminent bankwuptcy due to Tesla servicing their debt. Tesla is supposedly going to retire a significant portion of their outstanding debt. I imagine Tesla won't have any long-term outstanding debt in the near future.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Lol. Definitely trolling. Not sure whether his meme-addled mind knows that is what he is doing though.
DanCar
Active Member
FSD beta v9.1 coming next Saturday.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
This is gonna be the release candidate. Going silver, baby.
Wonder when they will start using the depth map?
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