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Seems to be implying that additional cameras slows down frame rate? Well turn off cameras then. Do really need long distance front facing camera when making a turn?
I have no idea if this particular guy it's really from Tesla or just playing it. But that comment about a couple more cameras destroying the frame rate of the entire system is simply, in his own words, dumb. There are many possible solutions to providing and/or retrofitting a better camera suite, even with the existing HW3 central unit - and for an HW4 yet far more.

There are certainly some poorly implemented possible solutions, perhaps interleaving video full time at full res, that would force a halving of frame rate for two existing cameras. There are far more ways of messing up an engineering project than of doing it right but I don't expect that from Tesla.

Im sorry but his comment betrays lack of engineering knowledge, lack of engineering imagination or lack truthfulness - there are 7 possible combinations. I'm already on record, on this topic, as saying that Tesla engineers are smart and quite familiar with the problem. They're also quite familiar with repurposing existing hardware to serve an originally unanticipated need. This does not sound like any of that, so I'd take everything this guy tweets very skeptically.
 
I have no idea if this particular guy it's really from Tesla or just playing it. But that comment about a couple more cameras destroying the frame rate of the entire system is simply, in his own words, dumb. There are many possible solutions to providing and/or retrofitting a better camera suite, even with the existing HW3 central unit - and for an HW4 yet far more.

There are certainly some poorly implemented possible solutions, perhaps interleaving video full time at full res, that would force a halving of frame rate for two existing cameras. There are far more ways of messing up an engineering project than of doing it right but I don't expect that from Tesla.

Im sorry but his comment betrays lack of engineering knowledge, lack of engineering imagination or lack truthfulness - there are 7 possible combinations. I'm already on record, on this topic, as saying that Tesla engineers are smart and quite familiar with the problem. They're also quite familiar with repurposing existing hardware to serve an originally unanticipated need. This does not sound like any of that, so I'd take everything this guy tweets very skeptically.

What's the bandwidth of the bus that the cameras are all attached to? Is it known that it's capable of handling the additional data without rewiring?
 
What's the bandwidth of the bus that the cameras are all attached to? Is it known that it's capable of handling the additional data without rewiring?
The assumption would be that the video feed to the computer cannot be used for a higher frame rate as is, not necessarily because of cable or protocol limits but because of (assumed*) fixed FPS x resolution format at the receiver/processor on the HW3 board.

One solution (and again I'm not saying the only one) is to create local merging of the new corner-camera image with the most available existing camera l, with a video preprocessor module that would probably live at the retrofitted new-camera location, but the physical placement is one of the design decisions.

* I have no idea if it's fixed, and I'd actually be a little disappointed to learn that there was no flexibility built into the input video format on the board, but I'm trying to answer the question without assuming too much about that piece of hardware.​

I'm not really saying Tesla is likely to do this, that they want to do this, or that they think doing this will help them (though I think it would). I'm saying don't tell us you're an important guy from Tesla and then give us a completely BS reason why something cannot be done. I can well believe "we don't want to" or "we don't intend to" but not "we can't think of any way to do it because our first thought was crappy".
 
This seems like another senseless tweet from armanthehacker. What's going on?

News flash, the protected safety zone for pedestrians and bicyclists is: everywhere. Noting that FSD Teslas already must boldly proceed into and across pedestrian crosswalks as an element of the "Driving" part. And in reality, they are looking for pedestrians, bicyclists, children and animals that might appear in the nxt 10 yards of the road every day, all the time on every road.

The ability/necessity of the car to cross into bike lanes when turning, avoiding in-lane obstacles etc. is risky in the sense that all of these things are risky. But bike lanes are not particularly more sacred non-drivable area than are crosswalks, oncoming-traffic lanes (sometimes used when avoiding bikes or people on the right), general road-shoulder regions etc. etc. As discussed over and over, the car can't stop unexpectedly or be trapped with no way out because of "safety zones" that every other driver is using.

The paragraph above requires no special insight, and one wouldn't expect a Tesla self-driving whiz-kid to have not thought this through. By the way it's a similar problem as choosing the right moment to enter a left-turn lane, possibly in the divider lane ahead of the legal turn-lane markings, because the official turn lane has filled up. If you refuse to append your car to the end of the line, you'll block the through-lane and quickly get hemmed-in by other drivers who have no problem doing what you didn't do. You can proceed straight and re-route back later, but there are plenty of more justifiable situations to avoid (such as dangerous unprotected lefts) that FSD is not presently avoiding.

Normally I try not to be needlessly crusty, but these tweets from a supposed "Tesla insider" are coming off as particularly unimpressive.
 
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but these tweets from a supposed "Tesla insider" are coming off as particularly unimpressive.

I don't know about anyone else, but there isn't anything in AP that tells me the people behind it are all that impressive.

I don't mean to mean, but its rather ridiculous at times.

It re-centers anytime the lane gets wider like during a merge point
It has no coding to detect the turn signals of the car ahead to let them in
Often times the latency is too high between an event, and the car doing something to be worthwhile.

I followed the "Tesla insider" because everything he's said recently seems to be in line with expectations.
 
What are pedestrians doing in the bike lane? :confused:
Pedestrians socially distancing from the pedestrians on the sidewalk.
Runners that choose to run in the bike lane for some reason.

What I find humorous is how in Germany the bikers will have absolutely no regard for a pedestrians safety in the bike lane. Apparently its a crime with a death sentence where bicyclist are the judge, jury and executioner.
 
I don't know about anyone else, but there isn't anything in AP that tells me the people behind it are all that impressive.

I don't mean to mean, but its rather ridiculous at times.

It re-centers anytime the lane gets wider like during a merge point
It has no coding to detect the turn signals of the car ahead to let them in
Often times the latency is too high between an event, and the car doing something to be worthwhile.

I followed the "Tesla insider" because everything he's said recently seems to be in line with expectations.
Your point is understood. However, I assign a somewhat gentler criticism to
"FSD does dumb things, you'd think this would be fixed already"​
vs.
"I hope you buy this illogical explanation for why we [did | did not] fix this yet".​

The former is part of development, the development is hard, and the main disappointment is that it goes too slowly - especially frustrating in light of optimistic projections that we discuss endlessly here. But to me that doesn't suggest basic incompetence in known or established practice, , it comes from over-optimism when pioneering new practice. It's easy to deride, but a lot of accomplishments would never be realized, never attempted, if the estimates weren't presented without a strong dose of optimism around schedule and cost.

The latter is prevarication, trying to get you to accept a bogus justification in the hope that it will be more acceptable than the blunt true reason. A corollary technique to diversion. It's used all the time in politics, now in public health policy, and is applied ever more cynically if it isn't called out.

I feel we can criticize the awkwardness and even occasional scariness of current FSD, without concluding that Tesla engineers are incompetent and/or that Elon is a charlatan. I think the evidence is that the general level of engineering competence is very high, and the Autonomy team is at least world-class (TBD if they're world-beating). Elon is extremely technically ambitious/optimistic but he's no phony. His tweets are maddeningly ambiguous. He doesn't seem to be a super-talented explainer, especially to a non-technical audience. Sometimes I call BS on him too, as with the explanation for rushed radar deletion and flimsily-justified lumbar-module removal in 2021. But in his case, I can't question his Tesla bona fides

Now taking the bike-lane issue: sure we all agree that pedestrians and cyclists must be protected. But that was a very early and obvious priority. If recognition & labeling of pedestrians and bicyclists isn't largely and confidently solved by now, which would justify the tweeted comment, then it suggests a fundamental limitation of the camera suite* or of the highest-priority NN perception functions. I don't actually believe that because if true, the inexorable conclusion is they'd have to pack up HW3 City Streets right now and wait for better sensor hardware - retrofitted or part of new vehicle designs. In other words, if bicyclists & pedestrians can be protected, that's got to be in the code already.

The more logical and I think realistic reason is that, while we're indeed pretty confident we're not about to mow down bicyclists, the use-case of the bicycle lane as a secondary turn lane option, in heavy traffic in certain cities, simply isn't a high enough priority in the context of thousands or millions of other use-cases.

Put another way: the reason isn't pedestrian safety - that again is already achieved, or they should just suspend beta right now. The reason is similar to countless other things that FSD doesn't do expertly yet, it's not as important as say, recognizing safe gaps in high-speed traffic, which is consuming a lot more of our attention. In the case of that one, if it's not better real soon, they don't have suspend beta but they do have to refuse routing that requires such maneuvers.

So just say it. Don't say "we don't want to hurt [bicyclists and] pedestrians", that's a given and it's not the risk (unless you want to stop City Streets). Say "It's on the list and will happen, but deferring it won't cripple FSD. We feel there are higher priority use-cases to refine at this time. Use of secondary spill-over road areas will get more attention with the Rush-Hour Optimization stack in beta 12, hopefully December". It's only BS because it's optimistic, , not because I don't want to admit the real reason.

*I do think the camera suite has fundamental limitations (discussed just slightly up-thread), but presently I have no reason to believe this includes an inability to reliably detect pedestrians or cyclists near the car.​
 
I have no idea if this particular guy it's really from Tesla or just playing it. But that comment about a couple more cameras destroying the frame rate of the entire system is simply, in his own words, dumb. There are many possible solutions to providing and/or retrofitting a better camera suite, even with the existing HW3 central unit - and for an HW4 yet far more.

There are certainly some poorly implemented possible solutions, perhaps interleaving video full time at full res, that would force a halving of frame rate for two existing cameras. There are far more ways of messing up an engineering project than of doing it right but I don't expect that from Tesla.

Im sorry but his comment betrays lack of engineering knowledge, lack of engineering imagination or lack truthfulness - there are 7 possible combinations. I'm already on record, on this topic, as saying that Tesla engineers are smart and quite familiar with the problem. They're also familiar with repurposing existing hardware to serve an originally unanticipated need. This does not sound like any of that, so I'd take everything this guy tweets very skeptically.
Or it could be reading way too much into a single tweet on a complex issue and terminator's guess about the meaning is wildly wildly off and an engineer did not communicate clearly in the godawful piece of crap that shitter..I mean twitter is for communication. Less is more and he should have just said yes we are aware of issue and working on it.

Maybe your hypothesis is right...he's not a tesla engineer but I have met a lot of bright engineers that have trouble communicating complex issues , not that they don't know what they are doing.

Enjoy the button.
 
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I don't know about anyone else, but there isn't anything in AP that tells me the people behind it are all that impressive.

I don't mean to mean, but its rather ridiculous at times.

It re-centers anytime the lane gets wider like during a merge point
It has no coding to detect the turn signals of the car ahead to let them in
Often times the latency is too high between an event, and the car doing something to be worthwhile.

How quickly we get jaded. :) Just a few years ago the thought of a car driving itself at all, let alone stopping at red lights and turning at intersections was the stuff of science fiction. Now some people aren't impressed, LOL.

BTW, FSD Beta now recognizes turn signals.
 
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Elon says the way the safety score is calculated is fluid. Will be changing over time.
Theory:
  1. Tesla will monitor near misses and collect the data.
  2. Will go back and look at driving style, camera, etc... Might even look at road info, such as speed limit.
  3. Create a computer model / machine learning model that predicts near misses and collisions.
  4. If you get a low score or high probability of near miss, get booted from beta. Later might disengage beta real time.
 
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Elon says the way the safety score is calculated is fluid. Will be changing over time.
Theory:
  1. Tesla will monitor near misses and collect the data.
  2. Will go back and look at driving style, camera, etc... Might even look at road info, such as speed limit.
  3. Create a computer model / machine learning model that predicts near misses and collisions.
  4. If you get a low score or high probability of near miss, get booted from beta. Later might disengage beta real time.
LOL. Adds another twist to the safety rating - though I don't think it will change in the next week.
 
Elon says the way the safety score is calculated is fluid. Will be changing over time.
Theory:
  1. Tesla will monitor near misses and collect the data.
  2. Will go back and look at driving style, camera, etc... Might even look at road info, such as speed limit.
  3. Create a computer model / machine learning model that predicts near misses and collisions.
  4. If you get a low score or high probability of near miss, get booted from beta. Later might disengage beta real time.
Theory :

They don't have the man power to do this for thousands of drivers.
 
It does show an evolution in the safety culture at Tesla though, which is what the NHTSA/NTSB have been on about. If they put meaning behind their promises.

You are talking about NTSB, right :p

ps : Pollusion from vehicles has killed a LOT more people than AP/FSD ever will.
Yes, my "they" reference was poor. I meant Tesla but the NHTSA & NTSB can be a bit toothless at times too.
 
I got the "Button" firmware this morning, clicked "ACCEPT", and now I'm in the queue. :)

FSDbeta_button.jpg


 
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