jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
I agree with you, but driver disengagements can also make matters worse. Elon should at least attribute half an accident to those situations.
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Elon: FSD Beta tweets
- Thread starter Terminator857
- Start date
It is certainly not Tesla's merit, FSD beta did all it could to cause accidents, but the owners/ beta testers should be thanked for saving Musk's a$$.
My take on it is they're claiming there have been no accidents because they're excluding all minor accidents (curbed rims for example), and excluding all accidents where the driver took over just before the accident.
It's one of those things that's correct, but also really, really wrong.
To my knowledge there have been two reported accidents with FSD Beta, but both of them had been disengaged from the FSD driving before the accident occurred.
One of them seems like it was the lane departure prevention causing the accident, and not FSD beta during the moment of impact.
The other that was reported on TMC was overcorrection after taking over from an FSD beta screw up. The screw up where it suddenly twitches, and the driver wasn't ready for it.
Tesla needs to be more transparent about what length of time is allowed to go by after the disengagement from FSD beta for it not to be considered an FSD Beta accident. Is it 0 seconds or 30?
EVNow
Well-Known Member
That guy posted once, deleted video. No evidence FSD was even engaged. Just a case of hit and run.
True, BUT
Any lawyer would tell you to delete the video
Lots of FSD Beta drivers including me have had the same thing happen where the only difference was we caught it before it had a chance to go over the line.
My driving with FSD Beta engaged is a two handed death grip where my driving without FSD Beta is a single handed cool as ICE.
I wouldn't expect a long term poster to post something like that because that would be pretty embarrassing. Talk about letting a team down. It would be like "sorry guys, I was an idiot and now none of you can have FSD"
We know that the NHTSA requires Tesla (and everyone else) to report all incidents that happen on AP/FSD. What we don't know is how intrusive Tesla can be with their in-car telemetry and how strictly they are following the NHTSA requirement.
If Tesla can tell that the car went off the road while using AP/FSD (or shortly after disengagement) because of some transferred data back to the server, but the driver doesn't report it as an AP/FSD incident, then we're relying on the integrity of Tesla's policies to report it.
I'm glad you brought up the NHTSA requirements as I forgot about that.
The NHTSA requires not just incidents that happen while on AP/FSD, but also accidents that happened within 30 seconds of them being enabled.
So as far as the NHTSA is concerned both accidents that I mentioned would have to get reported despite neither being in AP/FSD during the exact time of the crash.
Tesla can't fail to comply or its going to be some hefty fine, and egg on the face.
This means the media can likely easily challenge Elon's claim if they can determine FSD Beta was active versus AP using the publicly available data.
Nice job for staying safe, everyone. Honestly, since October when the safety score cohort first got FSD beta, I figured we would have had several high profile accidents in the media by now.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Nobody is saying FSD won't make mistakes. But that person has certainly not given us any cause for us to trust them.
ps : It doesn't take much of an effort to reply with a single line that his lawyer has asked him to delete the video, for eg.
If on a limited access highway (Interstate type) you would have been on the AP stack.
Incorrect. That firmware was released as part of FSD beta and phantom braking happened when I was NOT using AP or FSD. When you get FSD beta even AP uses the same logic so does not matter if you are using just AP or FSD beta.
Isn't the point here that the Tesla short sellers and others who for whatever reason dislike Tesla have been claiming that the idea of FSD Beta - to let regular drivers try out a non complete self driving software - is very dangerous and reckless, have been proven totally wrong (so far)? It seems it has not been very dangerous at all. The supposed situation where a Beta tester would just let the car drive and hoping for the best has not materialized at all, quite the contrary. Sure, there have been "near accidents" and perhaps some minor situations but that also happens to people who are just driving normally. In my view, the only relevant metric is whether FSD (beta or complete) decreases or increases accidents/fatalities. If the latter, then all transportation authorities should encourage its use, not try to prevent it.
It also has to be a successful product.
Something people want to buy. So, for example, even if the accident rate is lower that’s not good enough if it’s more stressful for the driver when in use.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Sorry but this is incorrect and you can easily tell by when the display switches. When on the highway it changes back into the Vision AP stack that is the same as for all cars (without radar). FSD Beta will be expanded to highway in Beta 11..0 when it becomes a single stack. Now you can remove your Disagree unless you think Musk is wrong too.
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We are all eagerly anticipating single stack (for some reason) but it ain’t here yet.
Yea we all want it (me included) until we get it
and then......
until it is improved to match or surpass the current stack.Just hope I don't have to make any long trips until about 11.5.
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israndy
Supercharger Hunter
I have actually learned to do that, in the NoA days I would grab the wheel when the car veered into the oncoming lane, and I did for a time on FSD as well, but it seems to be smarter and will MOSTLY veer back into the lane. Sure, it's embarrassing, so I put the Student Driver bumper sticker on, but I have had many fewer situations where I jump to fix the issue, instead I am reaching for the capture video button instead.
Looking forward to 10.9 to see if the updated maps fix my home town that recently turned the long roads across the island from two lanes into single lane with bike lanes, that's were most of my issues come from, diving into the bike lane to get around slow traffic.
Yes AP visuals change when transitioning from FSD beta to AP but lack of radar logic staysSorry but this is incorrect and you can easily tell by when the display switches. When on the highway it changes back into the Vision AP stack that is the same as for all cars (without radar). FSD Beta will be expanded to highway in Beta 11..0 when it becomes a single stack. Now you can remove your Disagree unless you think Musk is wrong too.
View attachment 757053
when you accept FSD beta. Mine is a radar equipped. Btw I am talking about this experience related to v10.3.1. Since then I have gotten rid of FSD beta.Disagree will stay. Of course I will trust charlatan when he is ready to put one of his kids in the back seat of FSD beta Tesla and let it drive around.
I am completely ready not to update my car from this point on.
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