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I don’t think people are worried about there safe spaces as much as they are afraid that Trump might use the platform to call for another violent insurrection.
All the deplatforming is a symptom of a destructive algorithm that amplifies bubbles of negativity, populism and controversy. Social media companies create monsters for engagement, and then have to pull the emergency brake when the consequences pile up.

I did like Elon’s idea on open sourcing Twitter’s algorithm. But until it (and Facebook’s algorithm) moves radically towards favoring level-headed and fact-based discussion, free speech maximalism just ends up supporting the polar opposite.
 
We’ve had less censorship than ever before so I’m not sure what you are talking about.


People consistently confuse:


Free speech means I have the right to say whatever I want so long as I accept any consequences of that speech

with

Free speech means other private individuals and companies must be forced and required to provide me a platform to say whatever I want and I must be immune to any consequences of that speech


They're pretty different things really- but it's surprising how often folks are unclear on the difference.
 
Free speech is a right granted in the Constitution to limit government
Freedom of speech is not granted as you said in the first sentence above, it is a natural human right that is, as you said in the second sentence below, affirmed and guaranteed. The amendments are largely an affirmation of the limits on a proper government, that it has no basis for infringing on fundamental rights as discussed in the Declaration of Independence and elsewhere. (Fundamental not meaning limitless; e.g. convicts can lose rights based on legal judgment, but fundamental meaning it is not granted by government. Freedom is not the same as anarchy.)
and has NOTHING to do with private companies.
One can get quickly stuck in the mud debating the private vs public venue issue, because lines are not so clear in many respects. If the town government builds a park with a "Town Square", but all the benches, sidewalks and grounds are leased and/or maintained by private entities, does that override the right of citizens to exercise free speech in that venue?
As long as the Constitution is in effect you have free speech and is a right guaranteed.
Any different form of government constituted by a different document, would not revoke the principles of natural or God-given rights. If it were written or could be interpreted that way, it would not constitute a proper government. Again we have to go back to the Declaration and, if you like, a study of the debates and writings of the time, to understand the principles.
Also when someone says something Elon doesn't like or agree with he then blocks them on Tweeter. Proving Elon is a flawed human just like the rest of us.
I don't argue that Elon has no flaws, but I don't see that he should be obligated to entertain each of his critics and hecklers on Twitter or anywhere else. So that is not flawed behavior IMO.

Your right to free speech does not imply my obligation to listen to you. I am free to turn away or cover my ears, or the technological equivalent (blocking ignoring, unfriending etc.) However, in a general sense, your freedom of speech prevents me from preventing your speech.


I certainly believe that the core problem is that we are losing the generally-understood principles of free speech, essentially that our constitutional and freedom- loving origins should inform our culture to abhor censorship, shouting down, canceling and all those ugly forms of idea control.Those things are worse and more dangerous than the ideas they seek to suppress.
Now he should forget Tweeter and get back to what he does best. Tweeter could be a GIGANTIC waste of money since it doesn't produce or own any real assets (it is a fad compony). Also if he sales Tesla stock to buy this will tank Tesla stock (which it is already effecting). In 10 years Tweeter could be as relevant and valuable as My Space is now. Hell even Elon said Twitter was dying. Let Tweeter die then (plus any idea of involvement) and concentrate on cars, energy and space, you know things that we KNOW will be relevant and valuable in 10 years.
I personally have had nothing to do with Twitter up to and including the present time, so I'm not about to defend its importance or relevance. I might be more inclined to participate if I felt that it represented a basically free platform. My original reasons for not joining up probably had more to do with the short-comment limit. You might infer that I'd have trouble with that :p; I don't think there's a lot of evidence that it is made the platform more socially constructive, though admittedly it may have helped make it popular.
 
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Free speech means I have the right to say whatever I want so long as I accept any consequences of that speech
This is not what free speech means. Afterall if this were the case - every country on earth has "free speech" - as long as you accept beheadings as a consequence.

Every country has rules about what is allowed and what is not allowed. No country has as absolute free speech. Elon is saying he wants twitter to just stick to that and not do anything extra. Which kind of makes sense - except there is a big problem on social media.

Can one person use their "free speech" to shut off others free speech ? Yes - it happens all the time. And that obviously runs counter to the idea of free speech. If you really make it free for all - abusive and obnoxious people take over the entire social network. They drive rest of the people away.

In real world it is not that much of a problem because people naturally separate out. I don't go to places where I expect to see abusive speech and when those people come to my social circle, they observe the tacit rules of this social space. Doesn't work on twitter.
 
People consistently confuse:


Free speech means I have the right to say whatever I want so long as I accept any consequences of that speech

with

Free speech means other private individuals and companies must be forced and required to provide me a platform to say whatever I want and I must be immune to any consequences of that speech


They're pretty different things really- but it's surprising how often folks are unclear on the difference.

To me its really about finding the right balance between freedom of speech, and the consequences of the speech.

These days everything we say online, and in lot of cases in the real world are documented forever. So we have to live with the consequences of that speech long after we said it. So long that societies views can change to where we we're simply on the wrong side of that change.

The consequences can be pretty severe with the combination of having so few platforms, and employment for a lot of people is limited to a handful of big employers.

The other issue is in a lot of cases whether we get deplatformed, silenced, etc is a decision made by an algorithm. This was a grievance Elon had with Twitter in being secretive about what the algorithm was.

Related to this FB recently deleted a bunch of accounts for apparently no reason. They can just claim they violated community standards or some user agreement without ever showing proof.

Maybe the best way to protect free speech is to limit the size of social media companies, and companies in general.
 
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If people dont like Twitters platform, then do like Trump did and build your own highly successful social media platform competitor..

I assumed you were be sarcastic due to how Trumps platform fell on it face right out of the gate.

But, on a more serious level I'm concerned about the prevalence of "go elsewhere" where instead of two sides learning to live with each other we'd decided we're just going to have separate camps.

I fear that this will lead to even more polarization.
 
What happened to this tread just being a place to get the latest Tesla-related tweets? I feel the off-topic banter may be best suited for another thread.
It follows the normal flow that it always does.

It trails off topic when Musk isn't tweeting about FSD, and immediately comes back on topic when he is.

If we weren't talking about off topic stuff we'd be debating about why FSD seems stuck.
 
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no one is guaranteed free speech on a non-government platform, they are entirely free to censor, kick or screw with people however they want with very little constraint. no one has the "right" to use or be heard on twitter or any social media platform, nor does the company have any responsibility to disclose their trade secrets.

instead of complaining about how unfair twitter is, maybe we should examine why everyone has such a strong need to be relevant on something that should be set aside after high school.
 
no one is guaranteed free speech on a non-government platform, they are entirely free to censor, kick or screw with people however they want with very little constraint. no one has the "right" to use or be heard on twitter or any social media platform, nor does the company have any responsibility to disclose their trade secrets.
True - but at the same time free speech does guarantee the right of people to crib about Twitter for not adhering to their own stated "free speech" policies.

Here is a good read on free speech and section 230.

 
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no one is guaranteed free speech on a non-government platform, they are entirely free to censor, kick or screw with people however they want with very little constraint. no one has the "right" to use or be heard on twitter or any social media platform, nor does the company have any responsibility to disclose their trade secrets.

instead of complaining about how unfair twitter is, maybe we should examine why everyone has such a strong need to be relevant on something that should be set aside after high school.
There's a persistent conflation of "free speech" with First Amendment rights or similar of government-provided rights. "Free speech," better termed "freedom of expression," is considered by classic liberals as a "natural right." It is not granted by any government, document, or entity - it is inextricably linked to human existence; it is "inalienable." The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not bestow a right of "freedom of speech" unto the people. It just says that the government will make no law limiting this inalienable right of the people that they impliedly already have. Similarly, corporations, like Twitter, can choose whether they will or will not limit this inalienable right, as long as their limitations don't violate State and Federal Laws and the First Amendment.

Perhaps what we should be examining is why so many people in the World would choose a company to "serve the public conversation" when that company has such a poor commitment to freedom of expression.
 
There's a persistent conflation of "free speech" with First Amendment rights or similar of government-provided rights. "Free speech," better termed "freedom of expression," is considered by classic liberals as a "natural right." It is not granted by any government, document, or entity - it is inextricably linked to human existence; it is "inalienable." The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not bestow a right of "freedom of speech" unto the people. It just says that the government will make no law limiting this inalienable right of the people that they impliedly already have. Similarly, corporations, like Twitter, can choose whether they will or will not limit this inalienable right, as long as their limitations don't violate State and Federal Laws and the First Amendment.

Perhaps what we should be examining is why so many people in the World would choose a company to "serve the public conversation" when that company has such a poor commitment to freedom of expression.
We do, however, place restrictions on speech. I'm free to criticize the government while standing on a street corner, without fear of retaliation from the government. I am not, however, free to yell "fire" in a crowded square, tell a stranger that I'm going to murder him and his family, or make false claims, harming someone - such as calling someone a child molester when they are not.

Many examples, like those above, are black and white and easy to recognize. But when things get subjective, it's harder to stand on constitutional certitude. The problem is when people walk the fine line, and make false statements, but carefully crafted to be opinions. Those educated in critical thinking can usually see past the hyperbole. But some people will be swayed by those statements, which could lead to counterproductive and antisocial behaviors.

Here are some examples:

Dewg is a murderer
I think Dewg may be a murderer
I've been hearing things that make me believe Dewg is a murderer
If you look at his past, and what's he's done recently, you'll conclude that Dewg is a murderer

All these statements are intending to alter the thinking of the recipient that Dewg is a murder. But which ones are illegal, not protected by "free speech", and which ones are protected by "free speech"?

My apologies for this little side-bar that took us farther off topic in a Tesla forum. :)
 
"Free speech," better termed "freedom of expression," is considered by classic liberals as a "natural right."


Article 19​

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.