Elon: FSD Beta tweets

[S4WRXTTCS]

I know of no system that's able to avoid potholes. Half the humans I know can't do it - if you're on a pothole-ridden street and have to snake your way though the maze to find the least-damaging path you should disable FSD.

Humans don't visually avoid potholes as much as they remember where they are, and they avoid them in the future.

Tesla could create a system where they used accelerometers (or some wheel sensors) to detect hitting a pot hole, and then used that data to trigger labeling of video data to train a neural network to identify a pot hole. Where they also used this detection to trigger reporting of the pot hole to whatever local agency was in charge of fixing a pot hole.

When approaching the same location they could use the cameras to determine if the pot hole was still there or not.

I personally don't see any excuse for City Streets system not to have some mechanism to avoid pot holes. At the very least to remember where they are.

 

[jabloomf1230]

I know of no system that's able to avoid potholes. Half the humans I know can't do it -

That's why Tesla owners have been agitating for a crowd-sharing option that would automatically alert FSD of hazards like potholes. Instead of blowing a ton of cash on Twitter, maybe Elon should buy Waze from Google.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You're afraid of driving next to a car?

This is one of the most basic driving techniques and it is a good one that most drivers do naturally. FSD does not usually adjust lane positioning to compensate for drivers with poor lane positioning though in certain cases will take unpleasant evasive action. It also does not actively avoid driving in blind spots and next to other cars (highly advised when possible for minimizing not-at-fault accidents), at least last I checked.

I don’t understand why people don’t want FSD to be better than most human drivers. Isn’t that the goal?

I just don’t understand at all the people saying we should not expect FSD to drive like us. But I suppose that’s true in a different way - we should expect it to drive even better than the smoothest human driver.

 

[Dewg]

This is one of the most basic driving techniques and it is a good one that most drivers do naturally. FSD does not usually adjust lane positioning to compensate for drivers with poor lane positioning though in certain cases will take unpleasant evasive action. It also does not actively avoid driving in blind spots and next to other cars (highly advised when possible for minimizing not-at-fault accidents), at least last I checked.

I don’t understand why people don’t want FSD to be better than most human drivers. Isn’t that the goal?

I just don’t understand at all the people saying we should not expect FSD to drive like us. But I suppose that’s true in a different way - we should expect it to drive even better than the smoothest human driver.

Not that I don't agree with you - and hopefully the end result is FSD drives at least as comfortably as a human - but everyone drives differently. I have two friends that I hate driving with (and mercifully since I have the "cool Tesla" now, I tend to drive most times with my friends).

Friend #1 is one of those people that hits the accelerator hard, and then coasts, then hits it, and then coasts. So he's up to 55MPH pretty fast, then you slow down to 45MPH, then he hits it back up to 55MPH, then slows down again. No traffic around him - you're just getting car sick with the g-forces. That's how he likes to drive - but it bugs me.

Friend #2 is one of those people that's last-second on everything. Turn is coming up, he waits until the last second and then cuts in front of people to make his turn. He's getting on the freeway and the lane he gets in on is an exit lane, and he'll wait until the lane is about to be forced off the freeway and then he cuts over into the normal travel lane. He's also the guy that doesn't wait in lines - if there is an exit that's jammed up a bit and there are people waiting in line for the exit, he'll drive around and then cut in at the front of the line. Again, bugs the hell out of me.

So when you say you expect Tesla to drive like us - which friend above do you want it to drive like? Or do you want it to drive like you - which would probably bug other people. Tesla is never going to please everyone. So we accept what they come up, that's hopefully a reasonable approximation of what humans do, following the law as best as it can (I'm referring to the people who are pissed it doesn't do rolling stops anymore, because that's how humans drive), or we tell ourselves it's not good enough and sell the car and go buy something that is what we like.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Not that I don't agree with you - and hopefully the end result is FSD drives at least as comfortably as a human - but everyone drives differently. I have two friends that I hate driving with (and mercifully since I have the "cool Tesla" now, I tend to drive most times with my friends).

Friend #1 is one of those people that hits the accelerator hard, and then coasts, then hits it, and then coasts. So he's up to 55MPH pretty fast, then you slow down to 45MPH, then he hits it back up to 55MPH, then slows down again. No traffic around him - you're just getting car sick with the g-forces. That's how he likes to drive - but it bugs me.

Friend #2 is one of those people that's last-second on everything. Turn is coming up, he waits until the last second and then cuts in front of people to make his turn. He's getting on the freeway and the lane he gets in on is an exit lane, and he'll wait until the lane is about to be forced off the freeway and then he cuts over into the normal travel lane. He's also the guy that doesn't wait in lines - if there is an exit that's jammed up a bit and there are people waiting in line for the exit, he'll drive around and then cut in at the front of the line. Again, bugs the hell out of me.

So when you say you expect Tesla to drive like us - which friend above do you want it to drive like? Or do you want it to drive like you - which would probably bug other people. Tesla is never going to please everyone. So we accept what they come up, that's hopefully a reasonable approximation of what humans do, following the law as best as it can (I'm referring to the people who are pissed it doesn't do rolling stops anymore, because that's how humans drive), or we tell ourselves it's not good enough and sell the car and go buy something that is what we like.

Those are both objectively bad drivers. I want it to drive as smoothly as the average Uber driver (who are actually pretty good). I definitely don't want it to drive like me when I'm solo, that would be terrifying. And if it were still an L2 system, impossible to supervise.

 

[Dewg]

Those are both objectively bad drivers. I want it to drive as smoothly as the average Uber driver (who are actually pretty good). I definitely don't want it to drive like me when I'm solo, that would be terrifying.

My point Dan is that those friends don't think they're bad drivers, that's just how they drive. And any car that drives differently may bug them - the friend who waits until the last second would think Tesla is too slow and why is he waiting for this line of people when the car should go around and cut into the front of the line.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

which friend above do you want it to drive like?

None of them. I mean, it needs to be better, as I said.

There are plenty of times I make mistakes or fail to anticipate something in sufficient time, and it results in an unnecessary jerk, and I usually hear about it from someone in the car. That’s where FSD can clean things up.

Yeah everyone drives differently, but some of those drivers are most definitely worse - it’s not just a driving style difference. We don’t need to fall prey to the idea that everyone drives differently and some people drive in a jerky fashion, so it is ok for FSD to do that.

I'm referring to the people who are pissed it doesn't do rolling stops anymore, because that's how humans drive

It’s silly to be upset about this. Mostly people do rolling stops because they don’t like the jerkiness and they think it somehow saves time (or gas/energy?). But it’s easy to do a proper stop without jerking and also proceed nearly as rapidly as a rolling stop. You just have to try. Most people just get lazy and don’t want to feather things just right, so they just let it roll. Plenty of people roll slowly through the intersection which eliminates any time savings.

 

[sleepydoc]

Humans don't visually avoid potholes as much as they remember where they are, and they avoid them in the future.

Tesla could create a system where they used accelerometers (or some wheel sensors) to detect hitting a pot hole, and then used that data to trigger labeling of video data to train a neural network to identify a pot hole. Where they also used this detection to trigger reporting of the pot hole to whatever local agency was in charge of fixing a pot hole.

When approaching the same location they could use the cameras to determine if the pot hole was still there or not.

I personally don't see any excuse for City Streets system not to have some mechanism to avoid pot holes. At the very least to remember where they are.

The problem with that approach is when they patch potholes, they usually use a hot patch mix that is black and stands out so the car will keep swerving around the patch, too.

Seriously, if TACC keeps braking because it’s afraid of shadows do you think it’ll be able to tell the difference between a patch, a puddle and a pothole?

 

[Dewg]

None of them. I mean, it needs to be better, as I said.

There are plenty of times I make mistakes or fail to anticipate something in sufficient time, and it results in an unnecessary jerk, and I usually hear about it from someone in the car. That’s where FSD can clean things up.

Yeah everyone drives differently, but some of those drivers are most definitely worse - it’s not just a driving style difference. We don’t need to fall prey to the idea that everyone drives differently and some people drive in a jerky fashion, so it is ok for FSD to do that.


It’s silly to be upset about this. Mostly people do rolling stops because they don’t like the jerkiness and they think it somehow saves time (or gas/energy?). But it’s easy to do a proper stop without jerking and also proceed nearly as rapidly as a rolling stop. You just have to try. Most people just get lazy and don’t want to feather things just right, so they just let it roll. Plenty of people roll slowly through the intersection which eliminates any time savings.

They'll get it ironed out. Right now AP and NoA are nearly flawless for me. Smooth in curves, little aggressive on starts and stops in bad traffic, but very pleasant for me. Not saying other like it, but it works for me.

FSD Beta sometimes gets jerky on turns due, I think, to planning problems or issues finding paths into a destination lane. Hopefully gets worked out in the end.

I'm personally seeing progress, so I'm hopeful it'll get smoothed out in time. I'm trying to be patient and let it evolve. My timetable is probably not the same as others who want more rapid progress.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I'm personally seeing progress, so I'm hopeful it'll get smoothed out in time.

There’s most definitely progress.

It took about three years for AP/NOA so I expect something similar, maybe slightly longer, maybe 4-5 years, since it is definitely a more difficult problem, for FSD, to get the smoothness issues ironed out. And with that timeline I anticipate that may happen only on cars with the latest hardware at that point.

 

[Dewg]

There’s most definitely progress.

It took about three years for AP/NOA so I expect something similar, maybe slightly longer, maybe 4-5 years, since it is definitely a more difficult problem, for FSD, to get the smoothness issues ironed out. And with that timeline I anticipate that may happen only on cars with the latest hardware at that point.

I'm hopeful that it'll be resolved faster than that and hopeful that you'll be pleasantly surprised. Sometimes technology makes leaps seemingly overnight, and perhaps this will be one of those times.

 

[aronth5]

I know of no system that's able to avoid potholes. Half the humans I know can't do it - if you're on a pothole-ridden street and have to snake your way though the maze to find the least-damaging path you should disable FSD.

Avoiding large potholes is something FSD will need to do. In late winter/early spring my disengagement rate easily doubles as I dodge them. This is the one point I agree with the OP but realize it will take awhile to be addressed.

 

[KArnold]

Seriously, if TACC keeps braking because it’s afraid of shadows do you think it’ll be able to tell the difference between a patch, a puddle and a pothole?

Maybe an API call to Waze, communicate that to FSD? Around here Waze knows about nearly all pothole locations pretty quickly.

 

[2101Guy]

Pothole detection coming soon..this is from February…

Tesla Autopilot is going to detect potholes and make mini-maps to remember them

Tesla’s Autopilot, which the automaker is trying to turn into a self-driving system, is going to detect potholes and make...

electrek.co

 

[sleepydoc]

Pothole detection coming soon..this is from February…

Tesla Autopilot is going to detect potholes and make mini-maps to remember them

Tesla’s Autopilot, which the automaker is trying to turn into a self-driving system, is going to detect potholes and make...

electrek.co

I don't mean this to sound cynical but I'll believe it when I see it. Quite honestly, pot hole detection and avoidance seems like it would and should be pretty far down the FSD development road. I really wouldn't expect them to start working on it until they're much further along.

Maybe an API call to Waze, communicate that to FSD? Around here Waze knows about nearly all pothole locations pretty quickly.

I don't use Waze to have any experience with it but that might work. The main problem is that it's rather convoluted and puts Tesla in the position of being dependent on another system which I don't think they want to do, but who knows?

 

[sleepydoc]

This is one of the most basic driving techniques and it is a good one that most drivers do naturally. FSD does not usually adjust lane positioning to compensate for drivers with poor lane positioning though in certain cases will take unpleasant evasive action. It also does not actively avoid driving in blind spots and next to other cars (highly advised when possible for minimizing not-at-fault accidents), at least last I checked.

I don’t understand why people don’t want FSD to be better than most human drivers. Isn’t that the goal?

I just don’t understand at all the people saying we should not expect FSD to drive like us. But I suppose that’s true in a different way - we should expect it to drive even better than the smoothest human driver.

If I'm that worried about someone being close to the line then what I'm really worried about is that they're not paying attention at all (and probably on their phone.) In this case I avoid driving next to them completely and either move forward or backward.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

If I'm that worried about someone being close to the line then what I'm really worried about is that they're not paying attention at all (and probably on their phone.) In this case I avoid driving next to them completely and either move forward or backward.

Yes, something that FSD should do as well, as I said.

 

[daktari]

No where does the system say it's L4, nor hint at being L4. When you get your car and enabled Autopilot and NoA (if you have the FSD package), there are warning pages that detail exactly what to expect, and that you must remain in control at all times (L2). If you're invited into FSD Beta, the warning screens are even more intense and require a 2nd level of acceptance (a check box), telling you that you must be in complete control, and that the system can do the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Not sure where in any of those warning screens does it indicate you can relax and let the car drive itself. If you're referring to comments made on Twitter, those don't apply as they are not company policy or legally binding to Tesla. Treat them like marking hype or campaign promises from politicians. If you are saying that people don't read those warning screens and simply press "Accept", like they do with Apple EULA's on iPhones, then I can't help those people. There's a massive, grand-canyon wide difference between blindly accepting EULA on an iPhone vs a big, heavy, moving car that can kill you or others around you if you use it improperly.

It is the user interface. The "pling" car is in control. Plong "driver is in control". It will try and try the toughes turns even if it will not handle them.

Other brands have a blended user interface where the system is active, but you can still steer - together. That is real L2.

 

[sleepydoc]

It is the user interface. The "pling" car is in control. Plong "driver is in control". It will try and try the toughes turns even if it will not handle them.

Other brands have a blended user interface where the system is active, but you can still steer - together. That is real L2.

’L2’ is a very broad category stretching from adaptive cruise on one end to Autopilot and FSDb on the other. The blended system you describe is somewhere in the middle. The key issue is one of driver expectations. in L2 the driver is responsible for the car, even if the car’s currently doing everything. As such the driver is expected to pay constant attention and take over at any time if necessary.

 

[boonedocks]

I don't mean this to sound cynical but I'll believe it when I see it. Quite honestly, pot hole detection and avoidance seems like it would and should be pretty far down the FSD development road. I really wouldn't expect them to start working on it until they're much further along.


I don't use Waze to have any experience with it but that might work. The main problem is that it's rather convoluted and puts Tesla in the position of being dependent on another system which I don't think they want to do, but who knows?

HAHAHA. That was from 2020. You aren't being cynical!!! You are just being a realist. We all know that kind of talk from @elon is just that......